Guardian 30,054: Brendan

Brendan has been showing up a lot lately, which I for one have no complaints about. All his usual ingenuity is on display here, though perhaps with rather more double definitions than some would like. Thanks to Brendan for the puzzle.

Today’s theme is playing cards, with the four suits SPADE[s], HEARTS, DIAMOND[s] and CLUBS, and the top honours appearing in ACEd, gherKIN Goddess (in the bottom row), QUEENing and JACK. There are also lower cards in FOUR-in-hand (which also has a HAND) and the reversed NINE in queENINg. Perhaps we could also include an INDEX card. Any more?

 
Across
1 SIMILES Modified missile they compare (not literally) (7)
MISSILE*
5 DIAMOND For Americans, field that’s extremely hard (7)
Double definition – the diamond is the field of play in baseball, and diamond is the hardest mineral on the Mohs scale
9 INDEX Last part of book, perhaps, some find exciting (5)
Hidden in fIND EXciting
10 ANSWERERS Respondents, as can be seen, covering all points about right (9)
NSWE (compass points) + RE (about) + R in AS
11 ALLERGENIC Recalling upset about drug producing bad reaction (10)
E (drug) in RECALLING*
12 CLUB Arsenal’s example of this weapon (4)
Double definition – Arsenal is a football club
14 ACCESSORIES They help thieves steal handbags etc. (11)
Double definition
18 UNICELLULAR Like life as simple as possible? I’ll run a clue that’s convoluted (11)
(I’LL RUN A CLUE)*
21 ERGO Soccer goalkeeper goofed thus (once in each half) (4)
Hidden twice in soccER GOalkeepER GOofed
22 QUARANTINE Volume in English about an isolated regime (10)
AN in QUART IN E[nglish]
25 IMITATING Following one action of union, embracing it (9)
I (one) + IT in MATING
26 AFTER Succeeding with a more stern position? (5)
If you’re nearer the stern of a boat you are AFT-ER
27 GHERKIN Last of aging female’s family that may be prepared to help in a pickle (7)
[agin]G + HER KIN
28 GODDESS Beautiful woman performs without love in theatre part (7)
DOES (performs) less O (zero, love) in GODS (part of a theatre)
Down
1 SPINAL Bias added to a line in personal kind of column (6)
SPIN (bias) + A L[ine]
2 MIDDLE Waist hit when batting – precisely (6)
Double definition – to middle is to “hit the [cricket] ball with the middle of the bat”
3 LUXURIATED Heard you and I ruled tax out of order, had it very easy (10)
Anagram of U (you) I RULED TAX
4 SPADE Tool that’s sharp but may be said to be blunt (5)
Not sure: could it be a homophone of “spayed”, which makes an animal inferile or “blunt”?
5 DISMISSAL Firing careless shot might result in this (9)
Double definition – the “careless shot” is in cricket, where it could get you dismissed or out
6 ACED Perfectly performed in most social classes (4)
All but one of the social classes A B C D E (though C is usually subdivided into C1 and C2)
7 OVERLAID Covered as a learner, I drove erratically (8)
Anagram of A L I DROVE
8 DISABUSE A coach secured by side in disarray? Correct (8)
A BUS in SIDE*
13 FOUR‑IN‑HAND It takes several horses to move it inches? (4-2-4)
Double definition: there are four inches in a hand, as used in measuring horses; a four-in-hand is a horse-drawn carriage
15 COLLUSION Complicity in conflict, having change of heart (9)
COLLISON (conflict) with the central I replaced by U
16 QUEENING Being promoted on board – for French, that upset good number (8)
QUE (French “that”) + reverse of G NINE
17 RINGSIDE Faction supporting gang in area close to fighting (8)
RING (faction) + SIDE (gang)
19 LITTLE Short rhyme for it will, when spoken quickly (6)
LITTLE rhymes with “it’ll”
20 HEARTS Emoji used by wooer in suit (6)
Double definition – wooers might send the hearts emoji 💕 to the object of their affection
23 REGAG Once more restrict speech, for example in newspaper (5)
E.G. in RAG
24 JACK Device for lifting injured hill-climber (4)
Double definition – the hill-climber is Jack from the nursery rhyme Jack and Jill, who “fell down and broke his crown”

84 comments on “Guardian 30,054: Brendan”

  1. Jack Of Few Trades's avatar
    Jack Of Few Trades

    I thought we might be on for a pangram, but by the time I checked I realised there was no “z” or “y” and there seemed nowhere for the former to go so I was not too badly misled. I remembered after finishing that there is always something more going on with Brendan so went back and found the cards theme.

    For “spade” I wondered if it was a reference to “call a spade a spade” which is to be blunt. I guess if you “say spade” you are calling it a spade? A bit obscure but, with the theme, it couldn’t be anything else.

    Many thanks Brendan and Andrew.

  2. Crispy's avatar
    Crispy

    SPADE – To call a spade a spade is to be blunt

  3. DuncT's avatar
    DuncT

    I took FOUR-IN-HAND to be the pointer to the theme, referring to the two groups of ACE, KING, QUEEN, JACK and SPADES, HEARTS, DIAMONDS, CLUBS.
    Many thanks to Brendan and Andrew

  4. Geoff Down Under's avatar
    Geoff Down Under

    I didn’t think a spade was sharp. My knowledge of things equestrian was insufficient to understand FOUR-IN-HAND. And likewise cricket, to understand MIDDLE. Didn’t know gods were part of a theatre. The social grades were a mystery; now I see they’re a British thing. REGAG? Couldn’t find it in a dictionary, even with a hyphen. Actually I did … a type of flatbread.

    So, quite a few head scratches, but otherwise enjoyable.

  5. Crispy's avatar
    Crispy

    GDU @4 – Spades need a sharp edge to make it easier to penetrate the ground

  6. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    Thanks Brendan and Andrew
    I thought “call a spade…” for 4d too. Nice puzzle. Favourite the clever anagram for ALLERGENIC.
    “to help” in 27a seems there only for the surface – it doesn’t fit in the definition.

  7. Geoff Down Under's avatar
    Geoff Down Under

    Crispy@5, fair enough.

  8. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    My picks: DIAMOND, UNICELLULAR, AFTER, MIDDLE, SPADE
    and LITTLE.

    GDU@4
    I could locate REGAG in the Wiktionary (approved in
    Crosswordostan?)

    Thanks Brendan and Andrew.

  9. Lord Jim's avatar
    Lord Jim

    When I got 1a I assumed that the theme was going to be SIMILES, but as I progressed I failed to find any. It was only towards the end that I started noticing the cards.

    Good stuff as usual from Brendan. I liked AFT-ER, but my favourite was ERGO, with the clever construction. The surface with the American-sounding “Soccer goalkeeper” was perhaps a nod to the ongoing World Cup. And the clue was a nice reminder that the definition doesn’t have to be at the beginning or end.

    Many thanks Brendan and Andrew.

  10. DadsLad's avatar
    DadsLad

    Double theme. In addition to the playing cards etc we have the four fingers in a hand, index, middle, ring and little. Bravo

  11. ronald's avatar
    ronald

    Lovely puzzle, though ANSWERERS is a bit of a mouthful, and perhaps not often used on a daily basis. My last two in were ERGO and RINGSIDE. Well done Dadslad at@10 for spotting the additional mini theme…

  12. Balfour's avatar
    Balfour

    21 triggered one of my semantic bugbears, so take cover from incoming pedantry.

    ERGO does not mean ‘thus’; it means ‘therefore’. ‘Therefore’ = for this reason; ‘thus’ – in this way (Latin SIC’). These are logically distinct ways of reasoning towards a conclusion.

  13. Anne's avatar
    Anne

    DadsLad@10 Well spotted!

    Crispy@5, (GDU@4) A spade’s got a sharp edge or blade. The spade itself (in this case, the tool) isn’t sharp. I got the solution nevertheless!

    Couldn’t for the life of me see the second ergo ;(

    Thanks to Brendan and Andrew.

  14. Crispy's avatar
    Crispy

    Anne @13 – Are you saying that a knife isn’t sharp, it’s merely got a sharp edge?

  15. Ornette14's avatar
    Ornette14

    Tommy Cooper

    “I always call a spade a spade. Until the other night, when I stepped on one in the dark.”

  16. jkb_ing's avatar
    jkb_ing

    Many thanks to setter and blogger.

    For 17d RINGSIDE I had things the other way round with SIDE (faction) supporting RING (gang)

  17. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    Always a joy to see Brendan’s name on the puzzle.

    Slightly disappointed for a short while – having started at the beginning, as usual, I was, like Lord Jim, half expecting SIMILES – but soon cheered up when I saw the real theme.

    In a Brendan puzzle, there’s always icing on the cake and then the delicious cherry (or two) on top, which I so often miss. Kudos to DuncT @3 and DadsLad @10 for spotting the extra bits.

    From a long list of ticks, I’ll pick out ALLERGENIC, UNICELLULAR, QUARANTINE, GHERKIN, LUXURIATED, COLLUSION (I always enjoy substitutions and I like the word) – and JACK, for the extra smile at the end.

    Many thanks, as ever, to Brendan and Andrew.

  18. Billy Mills's avatar
    Billy Mills

    What an enjoyable puzzle.

  19. Roger's avatar
    Roger

    Did anyone else confidently put PLANE for 4d? Plane the woodworking tool, and plain as in blunt speaking?

  20. pserve_p2's avatar
    pserve_p2

    Balfour@12: Bravo! A very appropriate outburst of pedantry.

  21. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    The card theme helped me with QUEENING, having noticed the suits reasonably early. Thumbs up (or not) to DadsLad @10 for the extra. Someone on the G thread queried REGAG last night, so I found it, like KVa @8, on wiktionary with various quotes from literary works – seems valid enough to me. Favourites were ALLERGENIC and COLLUSION.

    Ta Brendan & Andrew.

  22. Layman's avatar
    Layman

    A great puzzle; unlike Brendan’s other puzzles, the theme eluded me during most of the solve, but in the end it helped with a couple of entries when I missed the ACE and DIAMONDs. I also missed the KING – didn’t see it ingeniously hidden in the bottom row.

    For what it’s worth, I don’t think any lower cards are part of the theme – the FOUR-IN-HAND may refer to either the suits or the honour cards not including the ten, – or to the (four of the) fingers of course.

    For RINGSIDE, I had the same comment as jkb_ing@16. Thanks Brendan and Andrew!

  23. Julie in Australia's avatar
    Julie in Australia

    Definitely no complaints here either, Andrew: it’s always good to see Brendan’s name pop up as the setter, and today I got to complete the puzzle in a timely fashion! This one really SUITed me! It was a delight, and I agree with favourites as mentioned by others above. I know it seemed super-obvious, but I also really enjoyed 12a ACCESSORIES, whihc made me smile.
    Like Geoff@#4, I needed to have 6d ACED explained – and I also didn’t spot the second theme – the fingers of the hand (thanks Dadslad@#10) – so it is always well worth coming here for the cherries on top!

  24. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    I believe DIAMOND refers to an American black diamond ski field, equivalent to black runs in Europe.

  25. poc's avatar
    poc

    No idea of the cricket meaning of MIDDLE, and of course entirely missed the theme, but a good puzzle for all that.

  26. Sourdough's avatar
    Sourdough

    This was great fun, though I parsed SPADE as Andrew rather than the obviously (in hindsight) correct ‘call a spade…. etc.’.
    I’m all in favour of pedantry, Balfour@12, and you are right, of course, but in the context of a crossword I think ‘cogito ergo sum’ = ‘I think therefore I am’ gets the setter off the hook. No-one would translate it as ‘in this way’.

  27. Charles's avatar
    Charles

    I saw INDEX, MIDDLE, LITTLE and RING for fingers (4 in a hand).

  28. James's avatar
    James

    Plane as suggested by Roger @19 seems a much better answer than spade. Even with all the crossers, there’s also share and shave that are sharp tools. I expect ‘call a spade a spade’ is what was meant but the clue doesn’t really get close to saying that.
    I liked most of the circuitous double defs, particularly JACK and FOUR-IN-HAND

  29. Valentine's avatar
    Valentine

    Lots of fun.

    nho cricket sense of MIDDLE or the alphabetical social classes.

    I still won’t accept REGAG as a word.

    Thanks to Brendan and Andrew.

  30. grantinfreo's avatar
    grantinfreo

    Sourdough, I think Balfour’s point is that you wouldn’t say “I think thus I am …”

  31. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    The first comment on the Guardian site called this a write-in and Andrew always finds them easy. I didn’t think it was that straightforward, but when I typed my solutions in on the PC when transferring from the app, I saw three suits and DIAMOND followed swiftly. I was then on the lookout for picture cards. Jokers were not forthcoming; there are enough in the news without needing one here.

    My last ones in were FOUR-IN-HAND (for which I googled carriage types) and QUARANTINE.

    I liked DISABUSE, LITTLE and GHERKIN.

    Thanks Brendan and Andrew.
    PS. Before I’m torn to bits about my comment @24, I took DIAMOND to refer to the extremely hard ski field. Although they are referred to as “black diamonds” (and double diamonds) they can only be black; the easier ones are green circles and blue squares, so black wouldn’t have been required in the clue.

  32. Balfour's avatar
    Balfour

    Sourdough @26. “No-one would translate it as ‘in this way.’” Well, of course they wouldn’t because ‘ERGO’ properly means ‘therefore’ in Descartes’ formulation. ERGO, I do not understand your point., which appears simply to reinforce mine. ERGO = therefore; SIC = thus / in this way. Please explain.

  33. Conrad's avatar
    Conrad

    Balfour: OED, thus, sense 2: “In accordance with this; accordingly, and so; consequently; therefore.” First citation 1175. Your pedantry is heroic but misplaced.


  34. Comment #34
    ⚠️ This comment was deleted or is awaiting moderation.
  35. copland's avatar
    copland

    The KING is on the bottom row – in GHERKIN GODDESS

  36. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    As mentioned in the blog.

  37. gladys's avatar
    gladys

    REGAG is a “word” I wouldn’t risk in Scrabble or on Countdown. I’m with Martin@31: who are these people who find Brendan a write-in (unless one of his many themes means that certain words must almost certainly be present)?

  38. Robi's avatar
    Robi

    Yes, usually a theme with Brendan and I spotted the suits, which helped with my LOI HEARTS. There is some justification for ERGO = thus in the Chambers Thesaurus, which gives it as ‘formal’. I liked the clue anyway. I also liked the good anagrams for LUXURIATED and UNICELLULAR.

    Thanks Brendan and Andrew.

  39. Miche's avatar
    Miche

    Always happy to see a Brendan puzzle. Didn’t quite get the theme(s). Didn’t know FOUR-IN-HAND except as a way of tying a tie.

    I read 17d RINGSIDE as SIDE (faction) under (supporting) RING (gang).

    4d: Nice to be reminded of one of my favourite plays:

    – This is no time for wearing the shallow mask of manners. When I see a spade I call it a spade.
    – I am glad to say that I have never seen a spade. It is obvious that our social spheres have been widely different.

    [The Importance of Being Earnest – but you knew that.]

  40. Staticman1's avatar
    Staticman1

    Great stuff as usual from Brendan. Bit of a facepalm moment as I totally missed the theme despite looking for a pangram with the Q and J on board. I blame the heat.

    Liked RINGSIDE and UNICELLULAR.

    Thanks Brendan and Andrew

  41. PhilB's avatar
    PhilB

    Chewy and enjoyable. Loi was quarantine for some reason. I had a blind spot there.
    I missed the theme as always. I parsed SPADE as in call a spade a spade, and diamond must refer to a baseball field.
    More cricket references (groan) and the less said about REGAG the better.
    Thanks Brendan and Andrew.

  42. Petert's avatar
    Petert

    It’s always a pleasure to see Brendan and it’s enjoyable to be able to use the arcane Imperial measure knowledge I acquired in primary school. In Balfour’s defence I think you could argue that the “thus” therefore is different from the “ergo” therefore, but it’s probably too fine a distinction for crosswords.

  43. SueM's avatar
    SueM

    Could NSWE in ANSWERERS fit the playing cards theme, as positions in a bridge game – or is that a bit far fetched?
    I didn’t see the four fingers theme, or the hidden KING, or the ‘blunt’ meaning of SPADE and a few more.
    Favourite was ERGO for the double hidden.
    Thanks to Andrew for the blog and the bits I didn’t see and thanks to Brendan for the lovely puzzle.

  44. Jacob's avatar
    Jacob

    Hard work and good fun – exactly what I hope for from a puzzle. I for one was not misled by the prospect of a theme of SIMILES, but only because I never remember that crosswords might have themes. I also completely missed both of the themes here. Only the cricket reference was outside my GK.

    Absolute favorite was 24D JACK.

  45. Mig's avatar
    Mig

    Brendan in good form today. Challenging, but doable, in a couple of sittings. I caught the theme before finishing, which helped with 4d SPADE. Well done DadsLad@10 catching even more. LOI 2d MIDDLE went in unparsed, not knowing the cricket reference — no surprise there

    Favourites 9a INDEX (I think some do find it exciting), 10a ANSWERERS (convoluted wordplay), 26a AFT-ER (“more stern”), 15d COLLUSION/collision, 23d REGAG (delightful word, despite the objections — first GAG, then UNGAG, then REGAG), 24d JACK (“injured hill-climber”)

    Thanks both

  46. Jacob's avatar
    Jacob

    Martin @31: Setting aside whether the skiing reference works (if it works for you, it works), the reference to a baseball diamond is absolutely ubiquitous in the US.

    OTOH, Diamond as a degree of difficulty for skiers is far less widely known, possibly only to skiers of a high proficiency who have skied in the US. The other difficulty it presents is that I have been skiing since my 20s and have never heard of a ski “field”, only ever “slope”, “run”, or “piste”.

    Ockham’s razor, therefore, inclines me to believe that Brendan’s intention was for the baseball field.

  47. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Thanks for the blog , very neat set of clues , many of them pleasingly concise . For once I was aware of the theme , being an avid card player . Well done DuncT@3 and hats off to DadsLad@10 for nailing the theme completely .
    I am fine with REGAG , a perfectly valid word with a clear meaning . The dictionaries cannot show all the RE- possibilities , Chambers93 says SOME words with the prefix re- .
    Surely MIDDLE and DISMISSAL are referring to rounders .

  48. aemmmnostt's avatar
    aemmmnostt

    Thanks Brendan and Andrew. Brendan’s double definitions require attention to surfaces, obscuring and sweetening the wordplay. The real stumper for me today was the social classes clue.

  49. Johnnybgoode's avatar
    Johnnybgoode

    Roger@19 Yes, me

  50. phitonelly's avatar
    phitonelly

    Entertaining as always. Half the fun is in nailing down the theme after the fact. For once, I managed to see both HAND spin-offs.
    Some slightly raised eyebrows: spin for bias didn’t feel quite right to me and the GHERKIN definition seemed overly long-winded. I also used the spayed idea when parsing SPADE but the “call a spade a spade” reference makes more sense now. I was confused by the singular emoji for the plural HEARTS but Andrew nicely illustrates the reason. In keeping with the cricket flavour of the puzzle, I was clean bowled by FOUR-IN-HAND where I didn’t know the carriage or the definition of the measurement, so a DNF. C’est la vie. Re QUEENING: is the term KINGING used in draughts, since that’s what the pieces are promoted to there?
    Brendan’s style of riffing on themes makes me wonder if he’s a jazz fan. Thanks to him and Andrew for the blog.

  51. Sourdough's avatar
    Sourdough

    Balfour@32. Profuse apologies, I misread your comment @12 first time round.

  52. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    Jacob @46 yes, that why I put the took in italics @31. I wasn’t trying to say everyone else is wrong. I haven’t skied in the America’s. It’s just general knowledge. Ski field is a used phrase but it seems to be most popular in the Southern Hemisphere where I also haven’t hit the slopes.

  53. Wallyzed's avatar
    Wallyzed

    Roger @19 – me too.

  54. mrpenney's avatar
    mrpenney

    Martin passim: Definitely a baseball diamond. But I’d still query “for Americans” in the clue. While the sport was invented in the US, it has been widely exported; you can find baseball diamonds on all inhabited continents,* and there are several countries that take their baseball more seriously than even the US does. Venezuela are the current world champions, for example, and Japan won it all during the previous edition.

    *Barely, though: it hasn’t really caught on anywhere in Africa, although South Africa does field a team.

  55. Peter B's avatar
    Peter B

    Great puzzle – nice theme – as usual missed by me till it was pointed out here.

    As a native North American, I agree that DIAMOND must be abaseball reference. However, I have to quibble with the clueing. The DIAMOND is not the baseball “field”, only the area cornered by the four bases.

  56. Brian Greer's avatar
    Brian Greer

    Balfour @ 12. In this context, “ergo” is an English word derived from a Latin word and therefore subject to modification of meaning, as confirmed by Chambers Dictionary, for example.

  57. Brian Greer's avatar
    Brian Greer

    Thanks, Andrew. As regards clue types, I generally limit the number of anagrams, otherwise I choose the kind of clue that I think best fits the word.

  58. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    Thanks Brian, REGAG seemed to cause the most controversy, your thoughts maybe?

  59. Grecian's avatar
    Grecian

    I don’t normally comment on puzzles from my colleagues, but that was a fabulous gridfill Brian 👋🏻.

  60. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    What an uplifting comment Grecian/Brockwell.


  61. Comment #61
    ⚠️ This comment was deleted or is awaiting moderation.
  62. Brian Greer's avatar
    Brian Greer

    AlanC @ 58: REGAG I found necessary to complete the grid as I wanted. Its recognition by Wiktionary is one defence but the point made by Roz @ 47 is the key one. Most verbs can be legitimately prefixed by RE-. Further, its meaning is obvious.

  63. Timb's avatar
    Timb

    Roger @19 yes me too !

  64. manoj's avatar
    manoj

    #26 you are not making sense- ergo is therefore. The translation is NOT “I think thus I am i.e. ergo is not thus. I think, this is more than just pedantic. It is the same type of error which when propagated makes people say tumeric or Nimrod for a stupid person. The only justification is therfore would not go well in that brilliant clue so poetic license.

  65. Brian Greer's avatar
    Brian Greer

    manoj@64 I repeat my point. I write crosswords in English, not Latin. When a word is “borrowed” from another language there is no obligation to have it mean exactly what it means in the donor language. “Sycophant” does not mean “informer”, let alone someone who shows a fig.

  66. James's avatar
    James

    It’s not the meaning of ergo that has drifted. That still just means therefore. It’s the meaning of thus that is broader, including, according to Chambers, both ‘in this way’ (at def 1) and ‘therefore’ (at def 3, the last one). The fact that it is used in the ‘in this way’ sense in the clue doesn’t matter of course.

  67. Brian Greer's avatar
    Brian Greer

    James @ 66. Yes, you are right, thanks.

  68. Conrad's avatar
    Conrad

    That was my exact point @33 above. I find it a bit odd that someone who enjoys solving crosswords should be unable to see that a word like ‘thus’ has more than one meaning. It also means ‘frankincense’, delightfully.

  69. Brian Greer's avatar
    Brian Greer

    Conrad @ 33.68. Yes, thanks for that, too, especially the date.

  70. Etu's avatar
    Etu

    Well, people borrow “spiel” from German to mean “ramble on”, rather than “play”, and “spritze” to mean wine and soda rather than a hypodermic syringe…

    …so I think that ERGO hasn’t suffered unduly.

  71. Caroline's avatar
    Caroline

    Lord Jim @9 – the 21 ERGO clue is a nice reminder that the definition doesn’t have to be at the beginning or end? Just what is this alternative rule we have evidently forgotten that we should be nicely reminded of? Please explain before we give up cryptic crosswords for good.

  72. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Caroline@71 , there is but one rule – The setter sets and we try to solve .
    There are many conventions , customs etc .
    The definition is NEARLY always at the beginning or end of a clue simply because this is how most clues work , It is hard to write clues with the definition elsewhere . Occasionally the definition will turn up in the middle as for ERGO , no rules/conventions etc have been broken .

  73. GrahamH's avatar
    GrahamH

    Spades are sharp: diamonds and spades are the pointy suits, clubs and hearts are the round suits.

  74. Lord Jim's avatar
    Lord Jim

    Yes, as Roz says @72, it’s difficult to write a decent clue where the definition isn’t at the beginning or the end, but it’s not impossible. One of my favourites a couple of years ago was by Pasquale: Put wild dog in here (5) for DINGO. It can be read as an instruction in two different ways: Put an anagram (“wild”) of “dog in” here (in the grid); or Put a word meaning “wild dog” in here. It works logically, which is the only test.

  75. Sourdough's avatar
    Sourdough

    Manoji@64 – indeed. If you read my further comment @51 you’ll see that I apologised for having misread Balfour’s admirable pedantry.

  76. TomK's avatar
    TomK

    Hadn’t enjoyed this when I was trying to solve it. Now, having read the comments and appreciated its cleverness and indeed its theme – which of course I managed to miss – I’ve changed my mind. Still not keen on REGAG, but happy to accept it as being necessary for the cause, as per Brian’s comment above @62

  77. Cellomaniac's avatar
    Cellomaniac

    Was I the only one who twigged to the four-fingered theme before seeing the playing cards theme?

    As usual, Brendan at his brilliant best, with all quibbling queries quite quorrectly quelled.

    Besides clever grid-fills, Brendan’s best quality is his wit. 26a AFTER is a good example. Thanks B&A for the fun.

    PS. I agree with Roz@72 (there is only one rule…), which is why I don’t understand her categorical aversion to indirect anagrams.

  78. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Cellomaniac @77 , yes just one rule but clues can still be wrong , not breaking any rules but simply do not work . You cannot mix up letters that are not present .
    This provoked resistance (8,7)

    Yes you probably are the only one to get the fingers first . I saw the cards and suits but did not twig the sets of 4 idea until reading the comments .

  79. Etu's avatar
    Etu

    I salute your second paragraph, CM

  80. Caroline's avatar
    Caroline

    Roz @72 So anything goes then? Indirect anagrams as well?

  81. Cellomaniac's avatar
    Cellomaniac

    Caroline@80, see me@77 and Roz’s response @78.

    Roz@78, “You cannot mix up letters that are not present” sounds like a rule to me.

    I’m going to make up a word, ATOZ, a kind of soup. A clue that says “alphabet soup” is OK because it is not an indirect anagram. But if the name of the soup is AZOT, a clue that says “mixed alphabet soup” is not OK. I don’t see why one is OK and the other is not. And if the AZOT clue is not OK, then it must be breaking some sort of rule.

  82. Caroline's avatar
    Caroline

    Sorry missed that. A crossword is a game and all games have rules. To make them good games. Letting the definition come in any part of the clue would make them much more complex to solve and I did not agree with Roz that this is necessarily harder for the setter. Eg For X read Y , where X is the definition but has a sneaky ‚For‘ before it.
    Sorry for the late hour, too hot, can‘t sleep!

  83. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Cellomaniac@81 not a rule just a simple fact , if you are making soup and you only have onions potatoes and swede you cannot have carrots in it , that is just life .
    Your ATOZ soup is brilliant , you should trademark it now .
    AZOT is not an indirect anagram , does not break any rules but simply does not work without further instruction .
    I cannnot debate further , I have a self-imposed 100 minute per week limit using my Chromebook so need to be careful and my telescope sites take priority .

  84. Queenslander's avatar
    Queenslander

    Ooh, that was pleasantly tricky. Not helped by all those long-forgotten (for me) imperial measurements. Thanks.

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