Guardian Cryptic crossword No 30,149 by Turnstone

The puzzle may be found at https://www.theguardian.com/crosswords/cryptic/30149.

Turnstone has authored a couple of Genius crosswords, but has mainly concentrated on the Quick and Quiptic which shows here in the relatively simple clue forms. Withiin this framework , the clues are well varied, concise, and well surfaced. Watch out for the little words which generally serve little purpose in the wordplay, but which here are transferred directly into the answer.

ACROSS
9 ABUNDANCE
Plenty of cake in a musical get-together (9)
A BUN DANCE. A clue that has been around the block a good few times.
10 OLDER
Senior school deregulated trousers (5)
A hidden answer (‘trousers’) in ‘schoOL DERegulated’.
11 UNICORN
Higher education growth is a fabulous thing! (7)
A charade of UNI (university, ‘higher edcation’) plus CORN (‘growth’, which could be animal or vegetable).
12 PIRATES
Wrongly copies change of direction in exercise system (7)
PILATES (‘exercise system’) with the L replaced by R (‘change of direction’). The clue needs 6D to resolve its ambiguity (although ‘in’ gives a nudge in the right direction).
13 ALIAS
It’s a shame setter’s embraced another name (5)
An envelope (’embraced’) of I (‘setter’) in ALAS (‘it’s a shame’).
14 STANDARDS
Flags in street with a red design sagging on the left (9)
A charade of ST (‘street’) plus AND (‘with’) plus ‘a’ plus RDS, first letters (‘on the left’) of ‘Red Design Sagging’.
16 GENERAL ASSEMBLY
Whimsically enlarge court? (7,8)
Cryptic definition.
I missed the anagram, but am still not entirely sure how the clue is best parsed. I think I will go for: an anagram (ASSEMBLY) of GENERAL is ‘enlarge’, with ‘court’ as the definition, and ‘whimsically’ indicating the wordplay in the answer.
19 SUBDEACON
Criminal case bound for minister (9)
An anagram (‘criminal’) of ‘case bound’.
21 SMASH
Ruin success (5)
Double definition.
22 TRIPOLI
City outing ending in Chicago Illinois held back (7)
A charade of TRIP (‘outing’) plus O (‘ending in ChicagO‘) plus LI, a reversal (‘held back’) of IL (US postal abbreviation, ‘Illinois’).
23 MISDIAL
Mike is laidback – wrong call! (7)
A charade of M (‘Mike’ NATO phonetic alphabet) plus ‘is’ plus DIAL (‘laidback’ – that is ‘laid’ ‘back’).
24 KHAKI
Shade that’s needed to get vehicle started, some say (5)
At least if pronounced with a long A, sounds somewhat like (‘some say’) CAR KEY (‘that’s needed to get vehicle started’).
25 NECTARINE
Fruit drink reportedly sticky mixture in middle of keg (9)
A charade of NEC, sounding like (‘reportedly’) NECK (‘drink’) plus TAR (‘sticky moxture’) plus ‘in’ plus E (‘middle of kEg’).
DOWN
1 NATURAL GAS
Fuel easy conversation (7,3)
A charade of NATURAL (‘easy’) plus GAS (‘conversation’).
2 MUSICIAN
Trickster replacing silver with American player (8)
MAGICIAN (‘trickster’) with AG replaced by US (‘replacing silver with American’).
3 ODIOUS
Extremely old acknowledgements of debt causing hatred (6)
A charade of OD (‘extremely OlD‘) plus IOUS (‘acknowledgememts of debts’).
4 ANON
A negative response in Europe immediately for Shakespeare (4)
A charade of ‘a’ plus NON (‘negative response i Europe’ – France in psrticular).
5 KEEP TABS ON
Maintain use of computer keys and monitor (4,4,2)
Definition and literal interpretation.
6 PORRIDGE
Order pig, cooked for breakfast? (8)
An anagram (‘cooked’) of ‘order pig’.
7 EDITOR
At last, requisite identification returned to right section chief (6)
A charade of E (‘at last requisitE‘). plus DI, a reversal (‘returned’) of ID (‘identification’) plus ‘to’ plus R (‘right’).
8 IRIS
Current regularly drains plant (4)
A charade of I (common physics symbol for ‘current’) plus RIS (‘dRaInS‘).
14 SELECTIONS
Doctor to license special extracts (10)
A charade of SELECTION, an anagram (‘doctor’) of ‘to license’; plus S (‘special’).
15 SEYCHELLES
Declare items found on the beach gathered for island state (10)
Sounds like (‘gathered’) SAY (‘declare’) SHELLS (‘items found on the beach’).
17 RHETORIC
Eloquent talk from initially righteous ambassador to wealthy cut short (8)
A charade of R (‘initially Righteous’) plus HE (His or Her Excellency, ‘ambassador’) plus ‘to’ olus RIC[h] (‘wealthy’) minus its last letter (‘cut short’).
18 BEATIFIC
Joyous rhythm leads to irrepressible feeling in choir (8)
A charade of BEAT (‘rhythm’) plus IFIC first letters of (‘leads to’) Irrepressible Feeling In Choir’.
20 BRIDAL
Book free case of alcohol for wedding (6)
A charade of B (‘book’) plus RID (‘free’) plus AL (‘case of AlcohoL‘). The answer is usually adjectival, and I have included ‘for’ in the definition; however, it is also, poetically or archaicly, a noun, for which ‘wedding’ will suffice as the definition..
21 SASHAY
Picked up small bag for excursion (6)
Sounds like ( picked up’) SACHET (‘small bag’).
22 TAKE
Appropriate opinion (4)
Double definition.
23 MACE
Staff inspired by workplace camaraderie coming back (4)
A hidden (‘inspired by’) reversed (‘coming back’) answer in ‘workplacE CAMaraderie’.

 picture of the completed grid

38 comments on “Guardian Cryptic crossword No 30,149 by Turnstone”

  1. Dr. WhatsOn's avatar
    Dr. WhatsOn

    I first went through the acrosses, getting only 2, then the downs, getting almost all. So, I’m wondering, does this say more about me (not interesting) or about the puzzle’s construction (quite interesting)? Answer depends on how others fared!

    There seemed to be a lot of repeated devices, but made up for by some nice surfaces. Liked BRIDAL, TAKE.

    Tx both

  2. Trovatore's avatar
    Trovatore

    At 16ac, I suspect there’s a play on the fact that GENERAL is an anagram of “enlarge”, with the anagram indicator (“assembly”) then appearing in the answer.

  3. Geoff Down Under's avatar
    Geoff Down Under

    Cryptocruciverbalists as a species seem to think that beat and rhythm are one and the same. They ain’t. A beat is regular, as indicated by a metronome. A rhythm is a pattern derived from a succession of different durations. I have fond memories of a trip to Cuba where we all made a point of learning the son clave rhythm on the bus.

    Yes, the two are described as synonyms in some dictionaries, but I don’t care. Having spent several decades describing the difference to my music students, I will not give ground.

    Having got that off my chest, this was a good fun puzzle, with no need to refer to Google or Wikipedia. I took ages to get the second word in GENERAL ASSEMBLY, but only because I’d misspelt SEYCHELLES. And I initially had BREAK for 21a.

  4. DaveEllison's avatar
    DaveEllison

    I agree with Trovatore about 16a, though I think whimsical is an anagram indicator, too. Is the clue a kind of &lit?

    I am pleased to see the use of “some say” in 24ac.

    For me a tougher crossword than Turnstones previous one

    Thanks both

  5. Menander's avatar
    Menander

    Re 16ac, I would see it as involving a reverse wordplay / reverse anagram rather than a cd or &lit. That is, ‘enlarge’ is an anagram (‘assembly’) of ‘general’. That would make ‘court’ the def as it appears in the clue, and ‘whimsically’ would do the work that some setters do with indicators like ‘clue for’, etc.

  6. michelle's avatar
    michelle

    Favourites: KHAKI, ABUNDANCE, MUSICIAN, NATURAL GAS.

    Was held up a bit in NE corner when I wrongly inserted PILATES for 12ac.

  7. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    Thanks Turnstone and PeterO
    Similar experience to DrWhatsOn @1 – I had only SUBDEACON in the acrosses on first pass, but the downs were much more obliging. I didn’t fully parse editor.
    Favourite SEYCHELLES – I don’t think anyone could complain about that “sounds like”.

  8. Trovatore's avatar
    Trovatore

    Meander @5: that’s what I was trying to say (“reverse wordplay / reverse anagram”) but didn’t have the technical term – so many thanks for that.

  9. Staticman1's avatar
    Staticman1

    Good stuff from Turnstone. Enjoyable if not the most difficult of Wednesdays

    Liked GENERAL ASSEMBLY and KEEP TABS ON.

    Thanks PeterO and Turnstone

  10. Redrodney's avatar
    Redrodney

    Menander @5 yes that’s the way I read it too. Good crossword. I think rhythm can be a clue for beat even if they’re not the same thing (they can be used synonymously). But are tabs computer keys?

  11. Drofle's avatar
    Drofle

    I fairly whizzed through this (in truth I prefer ’em rather gnarlier). But enjoyed UNICORN, SASHAY and MUSICIAN. Thanks to T & P.

  12. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    Very enjoyable and more sophisticated than the blogger’s preamble would suggest. I enjoyed UNICORN, GENERAL ASSEMBLY, SUBDEACON, SMASH, MUSICIAN, KEEP TABS ON and BEATIFIC. I hope the setter returns soon.

    Ta Turnstone & PeterO.

  13. Jack Of Few Trades's avatar
    Jack Of Few Trades

    Redrodney@10: I have a tab and reverse tab key on my keyboard towards the top left and often use them (together with “alt”) to switch between applications, or on forms to move between fields. It’s a long time since I’ve seen the word “tab” written on it, but I don’t think I’ve seen “enter” or “return” on that key for a decade or more either.

    Good fun – surprisingly difficult on the first pass but it all fell into place – as PeterO says, you have to sweat the small stuff in these clues, where “a”, “and”, “with” etc are actually significant. Many thanks Peter, and Turnstone.

  14. PostMark's avatar
    PostMark

    Elegant constructions, concise clues, gentle humour. A nice puzzle which was reasonably swift to complete though SASHAY held me up for a while at the end. BRIDAL was my out-and-out fave today with OLDER and KHAKI completing the podium.

    Thanks Turnstone and PeterO

  15. Aoxomoxoa's avatar
    Aoxomoxoa

    Exactly the same experience as others above – a puzzle of two halves – only one of the Acrosses on first pass but nearly all the Downs. Very enjoyable. I like “some say” in 24a as it avoids the arguments about dialects and pronunciation. Thanks both.

  16. William's avatar
    William

    “Difficulty” in cryptics seems impossible to define. I often come hear having struggled to read fellow solvers describing the puzzle as ‘a bit of a breeze’.

    Today I found this a write-in held up only momentarily by SASHAY.

    Many thanks to Geoff @3 for his elegant defence of beat vs rhythm. Couldn’t have said it better in a month of Sundays.

  17. Layman's avatar
    Layman

    This felt somewhat Vulcan-ic; not too difficult (though LOI SASHAY – which I only know from crosswords – took a while to recall) but witty and fun. I smiled at KHAKI – not at all how I pronounce it but fair enough given the “some say”. Favourites BEATIFIC, PIRATES, MUSICIAN and GENERAL ASSEMBLY. Thanks Turnstone and PeterO!

  18. Odysseus's avatar
    Odysseus

    On 16a, I too read it as a reverse (converse?) clue, signalled by “Whimsically”. I’m not sure whether or not “enlarged” is also part of the definition “court” (which is a little on the loose side either way); if so it would make at most a partial &lit AIUI.

    Overall I found this a little easier than yesterday’s; my first pass through the Acrosses was only about average but (like a couple of others) I got well under way in the Downs. Again a lot of coherent surfaces in the clues, some calling for quite close reading, making them all the more rewarding to solve.

    Regarding BEAT from “rhythm”, I don’t think that amounts to a claim that they’re synonyms, only that they’re found in the same section of the thesaurus, so to speak. When people say “That song has a great beat,” I don’t think they’re referring only to the tempo or time signature! Anyway, I suppose my attitude to definitions (especially in wordplay) is similar to that regarding sound-alikes: high precision should not be required or expected. Speaking of which, I happen to pronounce KHAKI almost exactly like _car key_; I think it’s the only word where I have an intrusive R, if that’s the term.

  19. ronald's avatar
    ronald

    For me, an even solve, and I tend to work away using the letters from those clues I’ve first managed to insert. As that is how I perceive a cross word is meant to aid the solver. I never attempt all the across clues first, followed by the down clues.
    At the very end it took a while to work out the AG being substituted by US to produce MUSICIAN, my loi. Many thanks Turnstone and PeterO…

  20. Petert's avatar
    Petert

    One of the delights of the English language is that it offers both synonyms and subtle distinctions, providing the pleasure of solving a crossword and the amusement of the discussion here afterwards. I was half expecting a debate about whether a bun is a cake.

  21. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    I found this very straightforward although not in the Vulcanic style proposed by Layman @17, as it was much heavier on charades than cryptic definitions. Now that the app has changed and I can’t pick out the short answers so easily, I tend to start with down clues. My first one in today was NATURAL GAS (which is quite Vulcanic) at 1D so maybe I’d have experienced the first pass of other commenters if it wasn’t for that. As others have said, I could only fully parse GENERAL ASSEMBLY as a reverse anagram.

    Quick but fun with good surfaces.

    Thanks Turnstone and PeterO

  22. Balfour's avatar
    Balfour

    ronald @19 That is my own modus operandi, for the same reason. However, I acknowledge that solving the puzzle strictly in clue order, at least initially, has its noted devotees here, including Eileen and, of course, Roz, who regards the puzzle as a series of unconnected verbal conundrums, and for whom entering them in the grid and using the crossers seems to be a final resort.

  23. Hadrian's avatar
    Hadrian

    Well said GeoffDownUnder@3, the cruciverbal muddling of ‘beat’ with ‘rhythm’ is as distressing as that of ‘art’ with ‘craft’ to us musicians; the distinctions are so central to our working lives, they make no sense as synonyms or definitions. Otherwise enjoyed!

  24. Lord Jim's avatar
    Lord Jim

    It’s interesting that ANON can mean both “immediately” and “in a while”. My impression was that Shakespeare tends to use it more for the latter — in Macbeth, when Malcolm says to Macduff “Well, more anon” he means they’ll talk more later. But no doubt there are counter-examples.

    Entertaining puzzle. Thanks Turnstone and PeterO.

  25. Phil McHale's avatar
    Phil McHale

    Thanks Turnstone and PeterO. But did Turnstone really “author” the crossword? I’m probably fighting a losing battle against unnecessary verbification here, but to my mind, authors write books while crosswords are constructed or set.

  26. Lord Jim's avatar
    Lord Jim

    PS The Shakespeare scene where ANON appears most frequently must be in Henry IV Part 1 where the Prince and his friends play a trick on the servant Francis, who is forced to cry the word repeatedly. I suppose there it means “As soon as I can”.

    Maybe it’s a bit like “Now in a minute”.

  27. Billy Mills's avatar
    Billy Mills

    This is, I think, Turnstone’s second cryptic outing, and I enjoyed them both. Not exactly write-ins (a term I’m not keen on), but straightforward enough. KHAKI was my LoI, not a homophone for me, but the K made it obvious.

  28. poc's avatar
    poc

    I too appreciate the ‘some say’ in 24a, not for the long ‘a’ but for the non-rhotic pronunciation. Other setters should take note.

    Not sure why Shakespeare needed to be referenced for ‘ANON. It’s a perfectly good contemporary word.

    I’m afraid I don’t really see how GENERAL ASSEMBLY is meant to work. Yes, I get it that ‘general’ and ‘enlarge’ are anagrams of each other, and that ‘assembly’ could be an anagrind, but why ‘court’ specifically?

  29. bodycheetah's avatar
    bodycheetah

    “When I use a word,’ Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, ‘it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.’
    ’The question is,’ said Alice, ‘whether you can make words mean so many different things.’
    ’The question is,’ said Humpty Dumpty, ‘which is to be master — that’s all.”

    Cheers P&T

  30. Nakamova's avatar
    Nakamova

    KHAKI made me laugh — it’s the standard pronunciation for car key in some parts of my neighborhood (greater Boston area).

  31. Imaginary_Cerebellum's avatar
    Imaginary_Cerebellum

    Had my PORRIDGE twice today – here and in the Times quick!

    Did not get GENERAL ASSEMBLY from the clue, had to biff it in from all the crossers.

  32. gladys's avatar
    gladys

    Nice one from Turnstone if not too difficult – and three soundalikes. KHAKI produced an appreciative OUCH from me, though I was expecting representations from the rhotic police rather than from people who pronounce it with a short A (I didn’t even know that was an option). Anyway, “some” covers a multitude of variations.

    I had GENERAL ASSEMBLY as a reverse anagram with “court” as the def. Favourite for a neat surface was PORRIDGE.

    PS: I’m a (Baptist) deacon, but I have no SUBDEACONS. I’m sure they exist in other denominations.

  33. Jacob's avatar
    Jacob

    I found this just the right amount of hard, although like many others I was not expecting much after the first pass through the across clues.

    LOI was KEEP TABS ON, even though the intent of the clue was clear and the answer was right in front of my eyes – or strictly speaking, off to the left.

  34. ronald's avatar
    ronald

    Balfour@22, yes I totally agree, each of us likes to challenge ourselves in a variety of different ways. As Roz and Eileen have often said they do.
    And the ANON I personally come across more frequently is the shortening of the word Anonymous/ly at the end of some poems of another age. Quite a few of these I have noticed being used as readings at recent funerals…

  35. jeceris's avatar
    jeceris

    Re 20, wedding v BRIDAL, both work fine with party making them both adjectives.

  36. matt w's avatar
    matt w

    Very nice puzzle! Contribution to the across v. down discussion, I did my usual thing of getting one answer (1d was FOI) and then working from the crossers, so I wound up alternating acrosses and downs without noticing one set as harder than the other. For 15A, since I had the “G” I popped “GENERAL” in as the reverse anagram, getting the second half only after working my way round the grid for more crossers. Got 9A by at first thinking “Plenty of cake” meant “BUND[t]” and wondered if 15D might be pronounced “sea shells,” but both make much more sense as is!

    Thanks Turnstone and PeterO!

  37. Aye-Aye's avatar
    Aye-Aye

    Phil McHale@25
    We should at least be thankful that crosswords are not yet ‘curated’, as everything else is these days.

  38. Valentine's avatar
    Valentine

    Pleasant puzzle, I had it almost all filled in last night.

    When I throw rocks at seabirds, I never leave a tern unstoned. (When I paint boats, I never leave a stern untoned.)

    I am frequently surprised at the number of boring US information Guardian solvers are expected to know, like two-letter state postal codes or (as recently) state capitals. I’m sure many Americans don’t know that the capital of Maine is Augusta — I do because I’m a New Englander and it’s a neighboring state, but there are a lot of western ones I never can keep straight.

    I pronounce KHAKI to rhyme with “cocky.” Do some people rhyme it with “tacky”? Do some people say “Kharki”? (The aforementioned “intrusive R”)

    joft@13 do you have a reverse tab key? Never heard of such a thing. But my keyboard does have words on the keys, including “tab” and “enter.”

    I couldn’t get SASHAY — does it really mean “excursion”? To me, it’s a square dance term, meaning “hold your partner’s hands and slide-step sideways.” Like many square dance terms, it comes from French in this case “chasser,” also a term in traditional French quadrilles, which used to occupy a place similar to square dencing in the US. French speakers here also adopted the term “country dance” for English-style dances done with two lines facing each other, Frenchifying it to “contre-danse.” That got re-Anglicized to “contra dance,” common non-square dances in New England, where they will explain that the two lines are “contra to each other” as if that made any sense in English.

    Sashay, meanwhile, means to me what it means to Google: “To strut, swagger, or flounce with style and attitude, drawing attention to oneself.” I guess in the UK it means excursion.

    Thanks Turnstone and PeterO.

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