This is Ludwig’s sixth cryptic crossword – the term ‘mixed bag’ has been applied to those published so far.
I blogged the first two, which proved controversial, as did the April Fool’s Day one and, in between, we had a superb Milton-themed puzzle, which I loved. Today, I have almost completely failed to get onto the wavelength and there are some woeful gaps in the parsing, I’m afraid. I’m sure help is at hand – my thanks in advance. I will make amendments as soon as possible.
I quite liked 11ac KILIMANJARO, 22ac MOT, 4dn REGENTS and 7dn ORPHEUS and gave a big tick to 6dn COMMON SENSE.
Thanks to Ludwig for the puzzle.
Definitions are underlined in the clues.
Across
1 Fibre in hummus is a legume (5)
SISAL
Hidden in hummuS IS A Legume
4 I’m high and far from dry (9)
RAINCLOUD
Cryptic (?) definition – reference to the expression ‘high and dry’
9 Agitator: Rep. apathetic but – what did you say? (9)
DEMAGOGUE
I can’t make anything at all of this, I’m afraid – please see comments 2 and 3: thanks to Hadrian and Wayne
10 Toni’s absent, a simpleton, daft sap you’ll find here (5)
MAPLE
An anagram (daft) of A [si]MPLE[ton] minus TONIS
11 One fellow with beer admitted to weight that keeps going up in Africa (11)
KILIMANJARO
I MAN (one fellow) + JAR (beer) in KILO (weight)
13 Finally see the squirrel fish (3)
EEL
Last letters of seE thE squirreL
14 Trim small trees (7)
SPRUCES
SPRUCE (trim) +S (small)
15 Abandoned – somewhat absurd – is U.S. education (7)
DISUSED
Hidden in absurD IS U S EDucation
16 Like one favouring Harriers or their namesake (7)
HAWKISH
Cryptic definition, referring to harrier hawks
22 French word for ‘test’ (3)
MOT
Double definition, the second referring to the Ministry Of Transport test for vehicles
23 Bleeding menaces causing a flap (7,4)
VAMPIRE BATS
I don’t understand this at all
24 Concerning number of roach trails identified at intervals (5)
OCTAL
Alternate letters of rOaCh TrAiLs
25 Draw some of sun’s heat twice (9)
UNSHEATHE
Hidden in sUNS HEAT HE[at]?
27, 17, 19 Aspiring to level of Tom, Jade and Quincy? (7,2,4,3,7)
KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES
Cryptic(?) definition, referring to three people with the surname Jones
28 Wear that’s loud and massive (5)
GREAT
I’m not sure about this: ‘loud’ often indicates a homophone and GREAT sounds like ‘grate’, which can mean ‘wear’: Collins has ‘scrape’ for both of these words
Down
1 On reflection ultimately calamitous, U.K. to consume excessively American puzzles (7)
SUDOKUS
A reversal (on reflection) of [calamitou]S U K + OD (overdose – consume excessively) + US
2 Less complicated to act coy around 50 (7)
SIMPLER
SIMPER (act coy) round L (fifty)
3 Pin on (3)
LEG
Double definition, the second referring to cricket
4 Temporary authorities on the subject of convenience (7)
REGENTS
RE (on the subject of) GENTS (convenience)
5 Country where you might find High Dudgeon and Greater Wrath? (7)
IRELAND
High Dudgeon and Greater Wrath are synonyms for IRE and could conceivably be place names, like Little Snoring and Lower Slaughter, for instance
6 e.g. making good use of the things that you find? (6,5)
COMMON SENSE
Cryptic definition, referring to the Wombles of Wimbledon COMMON, pioneers of recycling, the creation of Elisabeth Beresford ; ‘making good use of the things that we find’ appears in the theme song of the television adaptation
There might be cries of ‘too obscure’- and this may be bordering on the unfair – but, in this instance, all is forgiven, as far as I’m concerned
7 Classical musician: entreat hospital for returning … (7)
ORPHEUS
A reversal (returning) of SUE (entreat) + H (hospital) + PRO (for) for the legendary musician
8 … fought director, toppling leader, conquered (7)
DUELLED
D (director) + [q]UELLED (conquered) – I can’t make any sense of the ellipsis here
12 Physicist: evil liar, curt twisted manipulator (11)
MACHIAVELLI
MACH (physicist) + an anagram (twisted) of EVIL LIA[r] – cut short, i.e. curt
16 Hardly professional exam? I’m lying here (7)
HAMMOCK
HAM (hardly professional) + MOCK (exam)
18 Gammon rejected food in European city (7)
HAMBURG
HAM (gammon) + a reversal (rejected) of GRUB (food)
19 Volunteers given Japanese soup in ground (5,2)
JOINS UP
J (Japanese) + an anagram (ground) of SOUP IN
20 Clever-clogs: Sting, that is (7)
SMARTIE
SMART (sting) + i.e. (that is)
21 Fancy – or fishy (7)
SUSPECT
Double definition, the first a verb, the second an adjective
26 Regularly engage poacher needing this? (3)
EGG
Alternate letters of EnGaGe – or so I thought, until I looked at the comments on the Guardian thread, advising the use of the ‘reveal’ button and found that the ‘correct’ answer was ERG; I can’t find any explanation of either the definition or the wordplay (Stop Press: it has now been changed to EGG)
Excellent puzzle with some tricky parsing along the way. Enjoyed RAINCLOUD, KILIMANJARO, MOT, SPRUCES, KUWTJ, ORPHEUS and HAMMOCK, although I could easily mention others. At the moment, I’m also struggling with DEMAGOGUE and VAMPIRE BATS. RAINCLOUD, I just took as a CD with it being high in the sky and full of water.
Ta Ludwig & Eileen.
I think DEM(ocrat) AGOG(ue) is the opposite of REP(ublican) apathetic
9ac is presumably DEM agog is the opposite of REP apathetic in US politics.
For VAMPIRE BATS, I think it’s simply that they suck blood, and, being bats, they flap.
Thanks, Hadrian, Wayne and Crispy – that seems to work.
I could not parse 9ac; the OD bit of 1d; 6d (I am not familiar with the Wombles of Wimbledon COMMON), 8d.
New for me: MACH = physicist (vaguely heard of Mach 1, Mach 2 as something to do with speed but never knew of the man).
Demagogue – yeah no idea, thought it might be some sort of play on dem-agog as in a US house representative might be a “dem”, but then isn’t agog the opposite of apathetic?
I’m as flummoxed as Eileen on some of these.
In 9A Rep. apathetic could be the inverse of Dem. agog, but that’s as far as I could go.
Wow – three answers with the same suggestion appeared while I was typing!
9a as Hadrian, with “what did you say” indicating the homophone for agog.
23a I’m assuming that vampire bats are a menace, cause bleeding, and flap.
I’ve amended DEMAGOGUE in the blog – thanks all.
Apologies to those whom I crossed!
I took VAMPIRE BATS to just be a cryptic-ish definition, being flappy bloodsuckers. Didn’t think too hard about it since it came near the end (and I didn’t need to explain it in a blog 😉 )
I thought I’d dislike MOT before I got it, but thought it was reasonably clever in the end, though I did have to Google to be sure I was right. Also enjoyed SUSPECT, ORPHEUS, COMMON SENSE and RESHEATHE (though I see there’s some disagreement on that one)
Some of the rest felt quite clunky, though, and I’m not sure it’s just everyone being not on the same wavelength. Still, largely enjoyable and I feel like the clunkiness is becoming less the more we see of this setter(s?).
Thanks Ludwig and Eileen
Thanks Eileen. There were two I couldn’t parse, sadly they are DEMAGOGUE and VAMPIRE BATS! The nearest I got with the bats is that Vampires are bleeding menaces and maybe in bat form flap around, or cause you to flap if they come near. I hope someone helps us out soon.
I couldn’t see more than a cryptic definition for VAMPIRE BATS, though whether you would flap them away, I’m not sure. EGG was so obviously the answer to 26 that I didn’t check it, even after seeing the comments on the Guardian site. Like Eileen, I like the clue for ORPHEUS, but though I can see that a mountain does indeed go up, I didn’t really like the definition for KILIMANJARO. The reference in COMMON SENSE had that infernal song going round in my head. Thanks to Ludwig and Eileen.
Well I can’t say I feel any love for this puzzle. I just feel that, once I’ve solved a clue it should be clear to me it is right. I find Ludwig’s clues are like dividing by zero – in maths it is an undefined process (there is no answer) because, if you try to reverse the answer you could’ve started with anything. I find clues like “hawkish”, “demagogue”, “common sense”, “vampire bats” all so vague I could only write them in with a shrug and several crossers.
The occasional Rufus-like DD or CD is one thing but I find these fall far short of that ideal and there are too many of them.
Sorry – bit of a vent there. Usually when I don’t like a puzzle I stay off fifteen squared but perhaps I felt the need to let off some steam! Thanks Eileen for sorting through it all so diplomatically…
I was confident enough to know that EGG was correct, despite what the computer was telling me. You don’t need Mach to tell you that a solitary Erg would make for a somewhat underwhelming poaching process. I’m pleased to see that’s been rectified now. I liked Raincloud, Orpheus and Machiavelli. As a cricket fan, I am disappointed that cues like “Pin on” remain a blind spot. I did wonder how old and British you needed to be for the Womble reference to be any help, but, like Eileen, I wasn’t that fussed. Thanks Ludwig and Eileen.
I took 16ac to be a double definition referring to the birds and also the Harrier jump jet, the latter being favoured by those of a hawkish/warlike disposition. I thought 6d a tad elitist, but I can’t get the tune out of my head. D.o.i. – I bought the (vinyl) single with my pocket money.
A curate’s egg. Perhaps Ludwig has run his course.
Thanks to all, especially for the parsing.
Round of applause for the Wombling COMMON SENSE clue – love that. Any clunkiness in other clues forgiven!
Jack Of Few Trades @15 – many thanks for that. I usually follow your policy but I was down to blog this one. 😉
I solved this in the wee small hours as my daughter’s cough kept me awake, and was annoyed by EGG/ERG. Anyone keeping count of published errors in Alan Connor puzzles?
I’m far more up on the Wombles than I’ve ever been through Geocaching – Wimbledon Common is covered with Womble themed caches (and that includes my uncle dating Elizabeth Beresford’s niece/secretary when I was the right age for free books), so I didn’t have a problem there.
Also couldn’t see RAINCLOUD and found VAMPIRE BATS unsatisfactory in its looseness. Very glad not to blog this
Thank you to Ludwig and Eileen for duty above and beyond.
26d would work perfectly well for ERG if the clue had “enrage” in place of “engage”. Possibly two versions of the grid/clue got mixed up.
Thanks to Eileen and Ludwig
I was really hoping the appearance of the word SHAM, twice, might be significant (between 1 & 16D, and 4 & 18D).
Not sure why I’d want to over-complicate things; there was already enough fun to be had.
Thanks ever so Ludwig and Eileen.
Though I’ve liked Ludwig’s previous efforts, including the “controversial” ones, I’m afraid this is a clear decline in quality. Clunkiness everywhere, vague DDs and CDs and one clue that although obvious from crossers was utterly obscure at least to me (6d).
Sorry to go on about it but Everyman/Ludwig, if they are indeed the same person, surely needs a better editor, maybe a fellow setter? Editors need editing too. There are some lovely clues (MOT, COMMON SENSE etc), he may yet become one of the best, but the standard is presently too inconsistent to be Guardian-worthy IMO. Meanwhile Eileen deserves a medal, maybe in the form of an Arachne for her next blog?
Must be the worst crossword I’ve seen in a long time. My sympathies Eileen for you having to blog this. If the parsing of DEM AGOG is OK, where does the UE come from?
Too many ‘Quick’ (What’s the difference between RAIN-CLOUD and WATERFALL and why isn’t COMMON SENSE WOMBLE SPEAK? apart from the fact that it doesn’t match the crossers)and barely cryptic clues, not to mention the apparent error with ERG/EGG. Is there a crossword editor at the Grauniad? Oh Wait…..
I could go on, but it’s bedtime.
I’m very sorry, but for some reason the clunky surfaces of many of these clues as I read through them really put me off. Though the four three letter clues were all a bit of a giveaway. But not much of a help in filling the grid of course.
Rather feebly ended up using the Reveal button. Quite obviously not KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES this wet morning in East Anglia. Hoping the RAINCLOUDs clear and I nail a winner or two when I go to Newmarket Races this afternoon instead…
TimC@26- the UE drops out, -gogue a homophone of -gog (‘what did you say?’) Sleep well!!
For 9A, which part of the clue indicates that we should be looking for the opposite of “Rep. apathetic”?
There was quite a lot to enjoy in this, I thought. I agree that VAMPIRE BATS is a bit weak, but having had them explained, I thought DEMAGOGUE and COMMON SENSE were rather clever, as were UNSHEATHE and IRELAND.
Thanks to Eileen and Ludwig
Not much fun, I’m afraid. IMO Ludwig is an experiment that has run its course and should be put to bed. Even at its best it is less than the sum of its parts.
I found this rather a struggle, and for the reasons stated several times above regarding all the CDs and DDs, I wound up making liberal use of the “check word” button. I am glad to see it was not just me. I think some of what’s being described as clunky cluing would, from a more popular setter, be seen as stretching the boundaries. I quite liked the device in UNSHEATHE, where the hidden answer wasn’t in plain sight, though he did tell you what to do. IRELAND also made me smile–I love a good bad pun. (But yes, some of it was just clunky.)
A very mixed bag, from some easy hiddens and alternate-letters (EGG, EEL, SISAL, DISUSED, and so on) via some rather clunky CDs (VAMPIRE BATS, RAINCLOUD, HAWKISH) to some better clues like KILIMANJARO, UNSHEATHE, MOT, IRE-LAND and MACHIAVELLI. I realised there was a Wombles link in 6d, but the jump to COMMON SENSE wasn’t that obvious (to me, anyway). Can’t say I enjoyed this much: sorry Ludwig. Thanks Eileen for the blog.
Jacob@29: ‘but -‘
On the comments thread below Sunday’s Everyman blog, Hadrian raised the question of whether it was entirely healthy for a crossword editor to be setting puzzles under his own editing remit, a point he reiterates here @25. I am inclined to agree, and this crossword too would, I feel, have benefited from some sterner editorial scrutiny. JOFT above @15 cites some of the clues which, to my mind, were exasperatingly clunky and/or loose. Unlike Tim C @26, I can’t use bedtime as an excuse for not going into more detail, but I think enough said. Roz, I suspect, may need all her powers of self-censorship if she chooses to join the thread later.
TimC @26 If it’s any consolation I pencilled in ALCOHOLIC for 4a until the crossers intervened
I actually enjoyed this. I’m not one of life’s picture straighteners so was unperturbed by many of the quite reasonable quibbles others have raised
I’d heard of Orpheus but to quote HMHB “I don’t read, I just memorise names, So I can stagger through bohemian games”
Top ticks for MAPLE, COMMON SENSE & UNSHEATHE
Cheers E&L
Thanks Eileen. That was a tricky blog. Agree with many other comments on the clunkiness. I still don’t get DEMAGOGUE. I understand “dem agog” is opposite to “rep apathetic” – but what was indicating I should look for an opposite? Where does the UE come from? I was also puzzled by the ellipses in 7 and 8 but ignored them in the end. And who are the Wombles 😉? Completed it (which is a rare thing for me) but many guesses and unsatisfactory parsing. Thanks again Eileen and Ludvig.
Thanks for the blog , my beloved Guardian crossword has come to this , fortunately words fail me and I will stick to what I agreed with KenMac .
I see Hadrian @34 and @28 explains the opposite indicator and UE. Thanks! Still not convinced though…
BC@36: ALCOHOLIC is a much better answer!
[ Bodycheetah @36 , HMHB had quite a run in the letters column a few weeks ago . It all started with – Play one the drummer knows – . ]
Hadrian @ 34
I’d accept ‘but negative’
Though I’m going to add another “this needs an editor” gripe, since the clue has an ’em’ dash not a minus sign.
While I enjoyed seeing the Wombles appear, I can see why some would find it too obscure.
I also initially had alcoholic rather than raincloud. I prefer solutions to be unambiguous without the aid if crossers.
bodycheetah @36, I prefer your ALCOHOLIC to my WATERFALL.
Roz @38, I marvel at your restraint.
Now I really am off to bed.
I liked KEEPING UP WITH THE JONESES (27,17,19). I had trouble with parsing some of the clues, though I did find this less challenging than the previous Ludwig offerings. Thanks to Eileen and others for filling in my lapses in parsing. Thanks also to the Ludwigs for some good clues that I enjoyed unravelling.
Found it medium tough mainly due to an array of cryptic defs.
Liked DEMAGOGUE (novel trick), MAPLE, UNSHEATHE and KEEP …JONESES.
GREAT
Eileen! Your parsing seems all right.
COMMON SENSE
Didn’t parse. Thanks Eileen.
Despite some loose clues like RAINCLOUD, VAMPIRE BATS, found the puzzle enjoyable.
Very good blog.
Thanks both.
In my early years of skiing, the good skiers would complain about days with bad light or poor snow. I was never bothered because it would tend to bring them down to my level, and a day skiing was still better than a day not skiing. Then, I became more proficient and tended to agree with them. The feeling I have here is similar to that in my early days on the slopes. I complete the cryptic every day without the reveal button, but I’m not an expert. If I can work out the answers, I’m happy enough. The clues never “make me chuckle”, but they never enrage me either. I often need the crossers to solve a clue, but isn’t that the basic concept of a crossword? There’s a hint in the name. Unlike with the skiing, I don’t think I’ll ever reach the higher plain where I am smart or enlightened enough to be complaining about the free offerings. However, I appreciate the comments and often read them all. It certainly helps me to learn. Thanks all.
Martin N@46
Good post 👍🏼
Thanks Eileen for help with parsing UNSHEATHE and IRELAND and for the Physicist MACH. Thanks to others for the discussion about DEMAGOGUE and VAMPIRE BATS.
I was only partly on the wavelength with this puzzle, loving some clues but finding others clunky or over-wordy.
Favourite clues: COMMON SENSE, ORPHEUS, REGENTS, MOT, KILIMANJARO.
I’m surprised no- one has yet posted a link to the Wombles theme song. I can’t get rid of the ear worm.
Martin @46 , £3.20 is not free , but you do get a newspaper attached to the crossword .
Martin N @46 – some of us pay for these crosswords. It’s not free to me.
Another ALCOHOLIC here.
And Eileen gives the link to the song. Underground, overground ..
I started thinking about KUWTJ but was momentarily [UK usage] delayed by thinking there was no 5 for JONES! [That reminds me that once in the US I was confused by the announcement that: “We will be boarding momentarily”]. I liked the ‘heat twice’ device for UNSHEATHE, the REGENTS’ convenience, and the non-physicist MACHIAVELLI. I took VAMPIRE BATS to be a cd.
Thanks Ludwig and Eileen (I didn’t have a clue about the Wombles).
I’m a bit of an outlier here. I didn’t find this too difficult (nor too easy, for that matter). Like many, I struggled to parse DEMAGOGUE, though my thoughts were vaguely on the track of the intended method. While I’ve heard of the Wombles, I took 6d to just be giving an example of some anodyne comment some might describe as COMMON SENSE. Overall, this did not stand out as either a stinker or as superb – just a pleasant daily challenge. Thanks, Ludwig and Eileen.
Thanks Eileen – I fear this was a somewhat unenviable task for you to undertake. I found this a very mixed bag, as others have pointed out, with some quite devious and well-constructed clues and others that seem loose almost to the point of unparsability. I rather enjoyed COMMON SENSE, but wondered how widely the Wombles’ fame has spread for this to be gettable for non-British solvers. And on that topic, I’m afraid my inner pedant insists on pointing out that Elisabeth Beresford (in common with Moss and Murdoch) spelled her first name with an S, not a Z. Thanks Very much Eileen and Ludwig!
Thank you Eileen. Commiserations on your luck of the draw, and congratulations on your forbearance. Little Snoring and Lower Slaughter were the highlight of my day!
I find it difficult to believe this was compiled predominantly by either Everyman/Alan Connor/Guardian Crosswords Editor, or Enigmatist, who were identified as the collaborators in the earlier Ludwig. They’re both better than this.
SomeoneNamedGeof@23 might be on to something with the two SHAMs. During the solve, I wondered about the two HAMs in HAMMOCK and HAMBURG. Ham mock? Is this another joke?
I went to bed earlier than Tim C and woke up again to find my questions and quibbles answered in the blog and comments. Thanks Hadrian@34 for the ‘but’ in DEMAGOGUE.
KILIMANJARO . I knew it was a volcano so looked it up. It hasn’t ”gone up” in about 200,000 years.
I may have missed this in the blog and comments, but I finally twigged that UNSHEATHE was a partial hidden, plus HE for Helium. some of sun’s heat twice.
My pick was the fancy fishy SUSPECT.
If you describe this crossword as ‘excellent’ I can confidently predict that we have very different ideas about what makes a good cryptic puzzle. I have seen the words ‘vague’ and ‘clunky’ used. They do not even begin to do justice to the absolute dog’s breakfast of surfaces and mystifying ‘cryptic definitions’. Still, no doubt Brummie will be back tomorrow.
I think it might be time for you to drop your rather odd policy of only having setters that set for your organ Mr Connor. You never know, you might get some decent puzzles out of it. Isn’t that kind of the point?
[Martin N @46
I do take your point about it being ‘free’ to many solvers. However, please understand something: there are solvers, like me, who have been solving the Guardian cryptic for many many years and used to be of the view that in terms of its range of setters and styles but most of all quality, it was the best around. The degree to which that quality has declined over the years is marked, beginning somewhat with the previous puzzles editor and continued with new vigour by the current one. The annoyance comes from that and knowing that out there in crossword-land there are many very good setters whom the Guardian eschews for weird editorial decisions. Those setters are seen in other broadsheets and produce consistently excellent and technically sound puzzles. To anyone with any degree of loyalty to the Guardian it is sad – and yes, annoying – to see]
I may be mistaken about UNSHEATHE. It might be just as Eileen blogged, UNSHEATHE(at). That would make more sense from the wordplay.
A lot of simple write-ins, a lot of shoulder shrugging, not much joy on completion. ‘Mixed bag’ very much sums it up.
A few too many CDs for my taste, and I only connected “flap” to bats while reading the blog, but the only one I couldn’t parse at all was 6d–for me that didn’t border on the unfair so much as move into the unfair, settle down, raise a family, and become a naturalized citizen. Womble-based clues always stump me but I do appreciate that they bring pleasure to many UK solvers and it is a UK puzzle.
Anyway I did mostly enjoy this, my main complaint being that I did it last evening and only then realized that it was today’s puzzle and I would have to wait for the blog to explain COMMON SENSE. Thanks to Ludwig and Eileen. Is this the first gimmick-free Ludwig? I suppose the gimmick of the first wasn’t apparent until the second.
Martin N@46: If you complete the crossword every day without the reveal button, I’m not sure you’re not an expert!
Alan Connor gave a talk at the recent puzzles event at Magdelen College, as advertised on this site. In it, he said he had made a decision not to read comments about crosswords. Pretty depressing.
Thanks for the replies and added context. I do actually pay, too. When I started, that was still voluntary for the digital version, but that may no longer be the case. I knew I should have left that word out!
How different we all are!
I understand the gripes … and yet … I’m really liking Ludwig. I find their mindset fun.
And I like the clues themselves, even though I usually dislike clues that read badly. I loved the image that came to me in “finally see the squirrel fish” (I had squirrel as an adjective, with the writer seeking out the fish that resembled a squirrel).
Eileen, your Little Snoring and Lower Slaughter (are there a Great Snoring and Upper Slaughter?) remind me of Long Suffering and Much Dithering, the fictional villages in the wonderful Mistress Masham’s Repose, by T H White.
I’ve met the Wombles before on this site, but had missed their role as snappers-up of unconsidered trifles. Thanks for explaining.
I had ALCOHOLIC too until I realized that it and IRELAND can’t both be right.
How is MOCK an exam?
Thanks Ludwig and resoundingly thanks to Eileen.
Valentine @64. Perhaps it is not a practice in the US, but in the UK school students facing important qualifying examinations are often set a MOCK paper some weeks or months in advance to see how well or badly they respond to the kind of questions that they will face in the real thing. A MOCK is therefore a practice exam; the term is commonplace in educational circles.
miserableoldhack @54
I had to go out a short while before your comment appeared and so I’ve only just seen it. I am mortified, on two counts: the name of one of my best friends is Elisabeth and I actually posted the link to the creator of the Wombles, (along with one to the theme tune, SueM48 @48), so I had only just seen the correct spelling. I shall amend it immediately. Thank you for pointing it out.
Re DEMAGOGUE: I did just wonder whether ‘apathetic’ was an editing error. Would ‘antipathetic’ have worked slightly better?
Valentine @64: in Ireland (and possibly the UK too?) our poor school kids take their “mocks” a few months before their major state exams. The mocks are run by the school and are intended to give the kids a dress rehearsal for the real thing. They are graded and used to help students identify where more work might be needed. At least that’s the association I made between MOCK and exam.
Valentine @64 – the answer to both parts of your first question is ‘Yes’, as explained in the links I gave. I’ve been to all four of them. 🙂
Sorry I didn’t explain MOCK in the blog – as Balfour said, it’s a commonplace term here. Unfortunately, too many of my students didn’t take them seriously enough!
Mixed bag of GARBAGE!
Well , I enjoyed this greatly and look forward to more from Ludwig – or Ludwig as is preferred by the setter on an interesting day. Mind you he shares a name with my favourite composer and a delightful TV series. Favourite , REGENTS.
THANKS TO BOTH.
James @ 61 – that really says it all
Thanks, Eileen, and apologies. I clicked on your links but didn’t read them very carefully.
Could be with you on that Ellen @70 et al! I have since become convinced that Ludwig was speaking nothing but the unvarnished truth in 4ac RAINCLOUD when he set this.
[Eileen @69: If I had a pound for every student who told me “I didn’t revise for the mocks, so I could see how much I’d need to do for the real thing” I’d have retired rather earlier!]
It is sad that Grauniad crosswords attract by far the most attention on 225 when it is often the case that much better puzzles appear in the FT and Indy and all three are available free via the links given on this site.
JOFT @75 – me too!
I found the crossword very hard, although I more or less finished it once I woke up. I had found it frustrating because the clues were hard to parse and the definitions loose. I came here expecting that all the good crossword solvers here would have been delighted. I had the same experience with yesterdays and that was generally considered top notch.
One hypothesis: this one was a challenge because it didn’t stick to the conventions, for examples DEMAGOGUE, KEEPING UP WITH THE JONES, RAINCLOUD, SHEATHE, plus the wombles and the bats. They all involved a bit of squinting and thinking, either at the word play or, more commonly, what the clue is hinting at (I still don’t understand how the agitator clue is meant to work). To make it possible, we are given a few easy starters (for 3) and a handful of more involved but very orthodox clues, eg. SUDOKUS. The net result is novel. It is an experiment. Like many experiments it might well have failed. I can’t judged, but I can understand why a setter might try.
PS. I loved COMMON SENSE because I adore the wombles, but by my lights it is unfair. If the clue requires general knowledge, it should be possible to ascertain what it is that you have to look up. You can’t do that from the clue. Incidentally my first guess was ‘reduce, reuse’.
I had only come on here for a couple of parsings, I wasn’t going to comment but I feel the generally negative vibe is overplayed. I agree a couple of clues were loose, and I must admit I have found the Ludwig to be quite varied in style (are they multiple people?), but in general I found it fun. I’d go as far as to say more fun than some of the technically more correct setters using unusual words who are largely praised on here. All to their own!
Thanks Eileen and Ludwig
As someone who is quite new to solving cryptic crosswords, I feel compelled to share that I really enjoy Ludwig’s clueing. Whilst it may be true that some of the clues are less precise than some experienced solvers would like, I enjoy them and can generally parse them. Yesterday’s puzzle for instance, I found to be opaque and unenjoyable, even when I fully parsed a clue. I guess ‘wavelength’ is a mixture of age, cultural awareness, and personal taste. Whenever there are references to military ranks, or sports, I am unlikely to be able to fully parse a clue. Having said that, I would never demand that a setter who used those references not be allowed to keep setting. I appreciate the time and effort that goes into every puzzle that I try. If ‘Ludwig’ is reading this, please do not take the very harsh criticism on this blog to heart. Thank you for your sense of fun and creativity!
I suspect that Ludwig is rather enjoying being the pantomime villain (Boo!! HISS!!), so he’s not going to appreciate this. I liked this puzzle, as whacko and unconventional as it doubtless is. I completed it, “relatively” painlessly, (but very slowly), which is more than applies to certain setters I tackle.
DEMAGOGUE, 9(ac), is like one of those ridiculous clues on the old “Dusty Bin” TV quiz show (3-2-1) : so overspun, and bad….. it’s good.
Lud has me, on the ellipsis, “connecting” 7 & 8 (down). I hate the damn things. Is there an online game where the gamer has to fight a duel with Orpheus? Never played one.
Like a good pantomime, there are lots of groans, but lots of cheers, for me, in this one.
Thanks, LV, and the Queen of bloggers, Eileen
I didn’t have a problem with Ludwig’s earlier efforts, but this was uneven and lacking in elan. I liked SUSPECT, REGENTS, LEG, and COMMON SENSE. I didn’t find DEMAGOGUE, HAWKISH or VAMPIRE BATS very satisfactory, although they were not hard to get due to giveaway crossers. Stuff like SUDOKUS, MAPLE and JOINS UP I just found laboured. I wouldn’t say the puzzle made me angry, but it didn’t make me very happy either.
Niall@80: Hear Hear …
And I seem to remember contributors BTL being asked to remember that setters put a lot of work into compiling our crosswords and that unpleasant criticism has no place here… rather more gratitude wouldn’t go amiss in my view ….
Quite enjoyed this, like I did one of Ludwig’s previous offerings. That is all.
Still a beginner @83 Yes, but part of the ‘lot of work’ that goes into crafting a crossword comprises scrupulous self-editing on the advice of an editor and/or a test solver. If that does not happen, we all become test solvers and find ourselves engaged in an interaction with the puzzle at an earlier stage of its development than we might wish. Hadrian, I and others have commented on this earlier in the discussion, and if James @61 is correct, ‘Ludwig’ does not even access, never mind respond to, critical input, whether negative or constructive.
As a “beginner” i.e. quiptic / Everyman / Monday cryptic level, I found this one quite enjoyable. I tend to find the standard late-in-the-week setters such as Paul, Tramp, Brummie etc quite ridiculous at times (the multiple “Puzzle” clue cryptic, anyone?), and I don’t make use of the setters’ personal flourishes like themes, ninas, every letter of the alphabet. Unsurprisingly, I prefer the quiptic setters even when they do cryptics.
I don’t understand why some people think that using “crossers” to solve is a bad thing. That really helps me, as do the anagram helper and check word buttons (gets used regularly as I go along). I often “get” the parsing fully or even just partially after the answer. Often I get the parsing completely wrong so I don’t mind “imprecision” in clues so much. As for general knowledge, there are plenty of cryptic solutions that require uncommon, British language usage e.g. “signal” for “striking” on Monday, or names of plants, textiles, furniture.
Last week was strange – the first time I “completed” all cryptics of a week, but that also started off with a “harder” quiptic (clues requiring multiple techniques).
Ludwig does seem to annoy people e.g. when the grid was permuted version of an earlier grid.
Well, I kinda liked it!
Thanks Ludwig, keep it up,(+ down and accross)
Keep up the ‘fun’ crosswords — and remember the Guardian is basically a British newspaper, so references to the Wombles etc should not be derided.
Thanks again Ludwig and Eileen
A few random thoughts, mainly about the comments rather than the puzzle:
1. Further to Stuart@79, if Ludwig is still a collaboration between Everyman and Enigmatist, it is not surprising that there would be a wide stylistic range in the clues – their styles are quite different.
2. I like Martin N@46’s comment, which describes my experience with two exceptions – I don’t always complete the puzzles without assistance, and I do get lots of chuckles from well-constructed surfaces. Also, I too choose to pay, but the crosswords are nevertheless available for free, so his initial statement is correct.
3. James@61 et al, If I were in Mr. O’Conner’s shoes, after reading the often extremely harsh criticisms of both his puzzles and his editorial work, I too would stop reading the comments.
Thanks, Ludwig for the fun, and Eileen for the engaging, informative and diplomatic blog.
Whenever the Wombles were on I used to turn off – either the TV if no one else was watching, or just my concentration if they were. I didn’t realise I was passing up the opportunity to gain some UK general knowledge that would help me solve the Guardian crossword several decades later. 🤔
As a matter of interest I looked up Jade Jones after solving the ridiculously easy 27 etc. Google offered me several people of that name. Was there a point being made here too?
I like the repeated HEAT in 25a, though I think this device has been used before. I got KILIMANJARO from the definition, but didn’t try to unscramble the wordplay until crossers had confirmed it. EGG and EEL were at Quiptic level, the use of ellipsis obscure. These are observations, not necessarily complaints, by the way.
This mixture of the facile and the obscure, the innovative and the hackneyed, the accurate and the loose, suggests that the clues are the work of more than one person.
The comments today have made interesting reading, particularly some recently started solvers saying they liked and enjoyed it. Maybe those who didn’t so much are a dying breed.
Thanks to Ludwig (do you really never read comments?) and to Eileen for your excellent work as a blogger.
I liked MOT, Machiavelli, egg, and Kilamanjaro.
I also like Martin N’s comment @ 46.
Thanks Eileen and Ludwig.
Can I please ask what “…” is used for in 7d and 8d?
I really hope there is a Monday-style puzzle this week.
You can generally ignore “…” (ellipses), they just serve to make a coherent sentence from two clues. In this case though, it makes no sense at all!
Grizzlebeard@67: “Apathetic” makes sense to me–Merriam-Webster at least has “agog” as full of intense interest or excitement, and apathetic would be the opposite of that.
Rudolf@76: Well that is the best comment I have ever seen on this site, as I didn’t realize that the FTs were freely accessible till now! I will say that part of the reason I do the Graun is that I like its interface.
I got the Wombles clue via crosses and blind trust, having never actually seen the Wombles as a child (the library mostly had tapes of the Clangers).
Ludwig seems to do some weird ones. So many cryptic definitions and unusual synonyms. I wonder if it is actually David Mitchell trying his hand?
Steffen @92
IMO, this one is a “Monday cryptic” candidate.
Valentine@64 there is a Great Snoring – about 2 miles from Little Snoring ( Norfolk). Upper Slaughter and Lower Slaughter are Gloucestershire.
In North Essex there is a village called Ugley and the Ugley Women’s institute once met up with the Nasty Women’s institute in neighbouring Hertfordshire.
Daft things amuse me !
Underground, overground …
6d the best crossword clue for ages!
But wouldn’t ALCOHOLIC be an explicit clue rather than a (just barely) cryptic one?
thanks Eileen and Ludwig
Even with Eileen’s help I can’t make any sense whatever of 28a, which was my LOI.
Re ellipsis in 7d and 8d, Orpheus was a character in a duel masters movie … or is that too obscure?!
Just as a footnote to this – I finally read this month’s Guardian crossword blog, where Alan Connor describes Ludwig as a “name used by various Guardian setters”, which could explain the descriptions of mixed bag.
I googled “Great Wrath” for some insight into 5d, and discovered it referred to a period in the history of Finland. So in went FINLAND without a second thought about “High Dudgeon”. When RAINCLOUD in 5ac demanded an “I” I changed the country to ICELAND, still mentally stuck in vaguely Scandinavian lands. Never thought of IRE.
In answer to your question, Jacob, it is the word “but”, as in the use ‘anything but’.
So “apathetic but” means to find the reverse of “apathetic”.
Does that help?
John
Re 23 across: is a VAMPIRE a stage trapdoor? Hence a flap?
Excuse me but what are CDs and DDs?
Please see FAQs at the top of the page. (I wrote them out in full in the blog.)
The parsing of DEMAGOGUE eluded me, and COMMON SENSE just fit, and the wordplay was arguably just an example of it, if you were, like me, not a Wombles fan. There were some odd clues in this puzzle – though I liked UNSHEATHE – but my overall impression of the puzzle was that it was fun. It’s a bit hard to understand the intensity of negative feeling of some commenters here. Thanks, Eileen and Ludwig (loved the show, BTW).
We had a Paul crossword in the online version today, rather than Ludwig…..plenty of comments for the Paul on the Guardian threads no mention of Ludwig!
All completed and mostly parsed. Too bad one of my occasional completions was one that elicited so many critical reactions. Ah well, I enjoyed it!
6a, I don’t know the Wombles, but I got the clue as a vague cryptic definition — “things that you find” are common? And “making good use” of them is COMMON SENSE?
7a ORPHEUS was a really fun surprise when the penny dropped! My favourite today