Guardian Cryptic crossword No 30,055 by Brockwell

Thanks to Brockwell for today’s puzzle, my favourites were 2dn, 18dn, and 23dn.

There are many themed links to 9ac CAKE: references to “9” in other clues, and thematic solutions or parts of solutions, such as COFFEE, [s]-CREAM, SULTANA-[te], FISH, CARROT, MADEIRA, APPLE-[ton layer], TEA [kettle], SPONGE

ACROSS
1 COFFEE
Drug supplier cut short proposal in church (6)
definition: coffee as a source/supplier of caffeine

OFFE-[r]=”proposal” cut short; inside CE (Church of England)

4 SCREAM
Comic character in yellow? (6)
definition: ‘they are a scream [e.g. to talk to]” suggests that someone is very funny, a “Comic character”

“in yellow” suggests some letters in yell-[ow], and ‘yell’ = SCREAM

edit thanks to Crispy in comments, “yellow” gives: yell ‘ow!’, to scream in pain

9 CAKE
Greek actress partly redirected Hollywood production? (4)
definition: Cake is the name of a film, a “Hollywood production”

edit, thanks to SpanielOwner and others in the comments: Paul Hollywood is known as a cake maker, so one of his productions would be a CAKE

hidden and reversed (“partly redirected”) inside: [Gre]-EK AC-[tress]

10 SUPERFOODS
Poor US Feds demolished Fruit & Nuts? (10)
anagram/”demolished” of (Poor US Feds)*
11 RETYPE
Peter Kay at last playing key characters again (6)
definition: to key in characters again on a computer keyboard is to retype

anagram/”playing” of (Peter y)*, with y from the last of [Ka]-y

12 LOOKED IN
Briefly visited butcher’s next to Scottish city (6,2)
LOOK=”butcher’s” (rhyming slang, butcher’s hook); plus EDIN (Edinburgh, Scottish city)
13 SULTANATE
American making a comeback with bronze in former territory (9)
US=”American” reversed (making a comeback); plus TAN=”bronze” (e.g. as in to get a suntan) in LATE=”former”
15 BABA
9 sailors from the East (4)
definition: a type of CAKE (9ac) often made with rum

AB AB (able-bodied seaman, twice, to give “sailors”), and reversed (from the East)

16 COAT
9 having afternoon in bed (4)
definition as in to CAKE (9ac) or to coat something = to cover it with a layer of some substance

A (afternoon) in COT=”bed”

17 ENERGETIC
Great-niece unfortunately lacking the focus of Blake Lively (9)
anagram/”unfortunately” of (Gre a t-niece)*, not including the focus/centre of [Bl]-a-[ke]
21 SWEET PEA
Rock maybe cut mountain climber (5,3)
definition: a climbing plant

“Rock” as in sticks of boiled sugar = a type of confectionery or SWEET; plus PEA-[k]=”mountain” cut short

22 FISHER
Rod Hull’s beginning to get into battered fries (6)
beginning letter of H-[ull] inside anagram/”battered” of (fries)*
24 BATTENBERG
Austrian barman hiding half of national treasure in 9 (10)
definition: another type of CAKE

Alban BERG is an Austrian composer (composing musical bars, so a “bar man”); around half of the UK “national treasure” David ATTENB-[orough]

25 OATH
Attila the Hun originally behind old curse (4)
first letters (originally) of A-[ttila] T-[he] H-[un], after O (old)
26 SEEDED
Tennis player getting journalist stoned (6)
definition referring to the stones/seeds of a fruit

SEED=a “Tennis player” who is seeded in a tournament; plus ED (editor, “journalist”)

27 JEWELS
Joe Swash oddly hoarding article of Spanish treasure (6)
odd letters from J-[o]-E [s]-W-[a]-S-[h], around EL (the definite “article” in Spanish)
DOWN
1 CHATEAU
Member of nobility beheaded 9 in castle (7)
CH, plus [g]-ATEAU=”cake” without its first letter (beheaded)

CH can mean Companion of Honour, which I’m not sure equals “Member of nobility”

2 FAERY
Imagined being a queen in fancy clothing (5)
for the definition, “being” as a noun, a faery is an imagined entity/being

A (from surface) + ER (Elizabeth Regina, “queen”); all inside the outer letters (clothing) of F-[anc]-Y

3 EASTERN
Oriental festival ending in confusion (7)
EASTER=”festival” + ending of [confusio]-N
5 CARROT
Incentive rising in motor racing (6)
definition as in ‘the carrot vs the stick’

reversed (rising) and hidden “in”: [mo]-TOR RAC-[ing]

6 EXONERATE
Old joke by judge giving pardon (9)
EX=”Old” + ONE=”joke” + RATE=”judge”

ONE=”joke” as in e.g. ‘have you heard the one about the…?’

7 MADEIRA
Mother has fixed idea about River Island (7)
MA=”Mother”, plus anagram/”fixed” of (idea)* around R (River)
8 APPLETON LAYER
ELO apparently created a bit of atmosphere (8,5)
definition: a region of the Earth’s atmosphere

anagram/”created” from (ELO apparently)*

14 TEA KETTLE
Wooden bench with section removed for brewing accessory (3,6)
TEAK=made of teak=”Wooden” + [s]-ETTLE=a type of “bench”, with ‘s’ for “section” removed
16 COWPATS
More than one whoopsie from Business Secretary’s empty threats about women (7)
CO (company, “Business”) + PA (personal assistant, “Secretary”) + T-[hreat]-S emptied of its inner letters; around W (women)
18 REFUGEE
Heart of Hugh Bonneville ultimately captured by fancy-free Paddington Bear? (7)
definition: Paddington Bear the fictional character, described as a refugee

central letters (Heart) of [H]-UG-[h] + the last/ultimate letter of [Bonnevill]-E; captured inside anagram/”fancy” of (free)*

context for the surface: in the Paddington film, the Brown family take in Paddington Bear. Hugh Bonneville plays the father, Henry Brown, who warms to Paddington over time.

19 IDEATES
Imagines day in Rome includes scoff (7)
IDES (as in the Ides of March, “day in Rome”), around EAT=”scoff”
20 SPONGE
Wipe bum (6)
double definition: to use a sponge to wipe clean; or to sponge/bum/beg
23 SCONE
Finally calls 999? (5)
the last 9 from “999” is the definition: 9ac CAKE e.g. a SCONE

final letter from [call]-S, plus ’99’=a type of ice cream CONE

78 comments on “Guardian Cryptic crossword No 30,055 by Brockwell”

  1. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    What a scrumptious puzzle, loved this from start to finish and was helped by getting CAKE straight away. There were numerous clever references to the keyword both in the clues and solutions. I thought that BATTENBERG and SCONE were outstanding and I also liked COFFEE with (S)CREAM on the top row, SWEET PEA, the brilliant anagram for the nho APPLETON LAYER and the surface for COWPATS. Again the use of real people like Rod Hull and Hugh Bonneville just adds icing to the…
    My only quibble was FISHER, who surely is the person using the rod.

    If you missed it yesterday, Grecian posted a very gracious message on the blog for Brendan’s puzzle.

    Ta Brockwell & manehi.

  2. SpanielOwner's avatar
    SpanielOwner

    nine across may refer to Paul Hollywood

  3. Crispy's avatar
    Crispy

    SpanielOwner @2 – That was my reading of “Hollywood production?”

    I also interpreted scream as to YELL OW.

  4. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    For now, for me, AlanC @1 says it all. I may be back …

    SpanielOwner @2 – that’s how I took it.

  5. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi
    Yes, Paul Hollywood, famous (on this side of the Atlantic, at least) for making CAKEs. CAKE was my FOI, but it didn’t help much.
    I don’t see a justification for EDIN unless “briefly” is doing double duty.
    Favourite the neat construction for JEWELS
    AlanC @1
    I have seen a fisherman referred to as a “rod” in the context of fishing competitons, but FISHER is stretching it a bit.

  6. SimoninBxl's avatar
    SimoninBxl

    Well that was fun and tricky in places. Thanks to manehi for the excellent blog, which I needed as I finished it but only partially parsed 24A and 23D both of which are outstanding as AlanC@1 has mentioned.
    Agree with others re Paul Hollywood and Cake.

  7. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    Also SEEDED, COW PAT, FAERY (sounds like) CAKES. Didn’t get the Paul Hollywood reference, so thanks others; I thought it was the Jennifer Anniston film referenced by manehi.

  8. Oofyprosser's avatar
    Oofyprosser

    CH = nobility, A = afternoon, EDIN = scottish city? Stretching things a bit, imho. Otherwise nice puzzle with a good theme. Thanks both

  9. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    btw I was relieved when I realised that I didn’t have to try to remember the name of a Business Secretary for 16d.
    To be fair, CAKE led me to BATTENBERG (which I would have spelled with a U, but Google tells me either is correct).

  10. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    Of course, as usual, it’s not just the 9s – I practically always miss one or two.
    My tally for today: COFFEE, CREAM, SULTANA, EASTER, BABA, COAT, FISH, BATTENBERG, OAT, SEED, SPONGE, JEWEL, FAERY, CARROT, MADEIRA and TEA.

    A long list of ticks, as ever but BATTENBERG (no parochialism here: Sir David is a global treasure, REFUGEE and SCONE are simply sublime.

    Huge thanks to Brockwell for a tasty treat and to manehi fora super blog.

  11. Eric E.'s avatar
    Eric E.

    Do-able, without having ever heard of the film Cake, or knowing anything much about cakes in general. I’m not really a cake person. Or a Paddington Bear person, come to that.

  12. Balfour's avatar
    Balfour

    Eileen @10 You could add LAYER CAKE from the long down solution.

  13. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    As I said, Balfour @12, I’ve probably never got them all – much the same as Brendan for me: I so often get the icing and miss the cherry on top.

    I looked in vain for lemon drizzle, which I plan to make today, before the sun moves round to my kitchen window.

  14. PostMark's avatar
    PostMark

    Splendid as ever and well done Eileen @10 for picking up on some of the less overt cakes. I wonder if COW cake could be included: cattle cake is certainly a Thing.

  15. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    PostMark @14 – I did wonder about ‘pat-a-cake’. 😉

  16. Andy in Durham's avatar
    Andy in Durham

    Not being a TV chef fan, the ‘Hollywood production’ part of 9a confused me at first. However, after a first pass through all the clues, I had both ‘A’s in 15a, so there was little else that one could be except BABA. That meant 9a had to be something culinary. Eventually I spotted CAKE written backwards in ‘Greek actress’. Still didn’t get the Hollywood part, but just put it in with a shrug. After finishing the crossword and going to bed, suddenly Paul Hollywood’s name came to mind and the answer became obvious. A couple of minutes later, the parsing of SCONE (which I also hadn’t spotted) came to me as well. Both raised a chuckle. This crossword kept giving, even long after I had finished it!.

  17. wynsum's avatar
    wynsum

    Great squidgy fun & a many layered delight.
    Apparently, SCREAM is also the name of a mainly yellow, Marvel comic book character.
    And COWPAT CAKE is a thing …
    Thanks to Brockwell and manehi

  18. Staticman1's avatar
    Staticman1

    I was told I needed to lose a bit of weight by GP yesterday so was a bit aggrieved to see my favourite cake make an appearance. Otherwise a great fun distraction. COWPATS was my favourite today but many great clues in here.

    APPLETON LAYER (not heard of) was last in.

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi

  19. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    It’s nice to get a keyword straight in, which I did, fully aware of Mr Hollywood’s work. I also got SCONE pretty quickly; I was toying with it being ONE under something and then it all clicked. I saw many a cake, but SCONE and BATTENBERG were the only ones where the theme definitely helped. Last one in was SEEDED and I didn’t parse SCREAM properly.

    I liked SWEET PEA, SCONE, RETYPE, COWPATS and EXONERATE.

    Thanks Brockwell, manehi and everyone else.

  20. bodycheetah's avatar
    bodycheetah

    CAKES are clearly a SUPERFOOD 🙂

    Brockwell remains at the top of my setters league. SCREAM was brilliant – definitely YELL OW

    The 99 Cone was a lovely coincidence as I’d just found out about Count Buckethead’s manifesto pledge to cap their price at 99p

    Cheers M&B

  21. Conrad's avatar
    Conrad

    I had parsed the ‘character in yellow’ in 4a as Munch’s “The Scream”, who is indeed yellow. But of course YELL OW is correct.

  22. Fiona's avatar
    Fiona

    Like others CAKE was immediately obvious to me and so was FOI. But took me a while to get going and didn’t parse BATTENBERG.

    Lots of neat clues like JEWELS, OATH, EXONERATE, COFFEE

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi

  23. ronald's avatar
    ronald

    Yes, very tasty indeed. ( I remember as a boy being warned to avoid the COWPATS in a field surrounding a mill pond where we used to swim on hot summer days. Mind the Cowsshht we were told, with a meaningful look.)
    Thought SCREAM a particularly obscure clue to parse, so thanks to Manehi for that one. Never seen Edinburgh represented as Edin before, but it simply had to be that to exactly complete LOOKED IN.
    I’ve never been good with SWEET PEA’s. Though the best examples I ever saw in bloom were at Kipling’s house, Bateman’s in Sussex.
    And out of all the lovely selection of CAKE’s on offer today, my favourites here are MADEIRA and BATTENBERG. Many thanks Brockwell for serving them up…

  24. poc's avatar
    poc

    SCONE was superb, but several others missed the mark for me: EDIN? I lived in Edinburgh for several years and don’t recall anyone ever referring to it that way. Very dodgy. And as manehi says, CH does not equate to ‘member of the nobility’. It is awarded for achievement, not for descent.

  25. beaulieu's avatar
    beaulieu

    Good puzzle. Favourite APPLETON LAYER (my first proper job in 1974 was with the Met Office so I knew about this). Agree with quibbles about CH and EDIN.
    For SCONE, I prefer the parsing hinted at by Martin@19. 99 is 1 less than 100, or ONE under C, so CONE in a down clue.
    Thanks both.

  26. gladys's avatar
    gladys

    Not happy with EDIN(burgh) or CH=member of nobility and failed to parse SWEET PEA, COWPATS or (alas) the brilliant SCONE. But some well-crafted clues for sometimes unfamiliar answers: APPLETON LAYER had to be a layer of some kind, and I liked the “drug supplier” and the Hollywood production, and Paddington Bear as a REFUGEE. Yes, SCREAM is definitely “yell OW!”, though I spent a while trying to make the yellow be CREAM.

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi.

  27. Eoink's avatar
    Eoink

    I’ve seen Edin. occasionally used as a parenthetical postnominal for the Jniversity as in BSc (Edin.), but I can’t remember as seeing it for the City.
    Thanks for the blog and for explaining scream, as so often when I see yell ow I can’t understand how I missed it. On the positive side I had an enjoyable 5 minute diversion looking up Mr Men to see if there were a yellow Mr Scream.

  28. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Thanks for the blog , very enjoyable set of clues , I was aware of the theme because of 9 but thanks to Eileen@10 and others for the full menu . Agree with Crispy@3 for YELL OW .
    Muffin@5 you are right that FISHER=rod for competitions but FISHER is the correct term , women are now allowed to enter .
    Favourites are BATTENBERG for David and scone for the very rare numerical fission .
    APPLETON LAYER inadvertently used by Marconi .

  29. Judge's avatar
    Judge

    Anyone else see a nod to fudge cake in REFUGEE, or am I just being greedy? Also, ENERGy cake is a thing.

  30. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    [ AlanC@1 tops the charts yet again , if a blog ever reaches 999 you must bag that spot .
    I am guessing your mother knew you would become a copper because of the 999 birthmark on your head ?? ]

  31. PhilB's avatar
    PhilB

    I got CAKE straight away which helped but some clues in the top half were too hard for me. I thought COAT was a stretch for a meaning of cake, and couldn’t parse SCREAM – still unconvinced after reading the blog – or the fiendish BATTENBERG.
    Enjoyed the bottom half especially COWPATS and REFUGEE.
    Thanks Brockwell and manehi.

  32. Paul Glasswell's avatar
    Paul Glasswell

    SCREAM is also the name of an old British horror anthology comic. I think Rebellion still produce the odd special issue and reprint material.

    Some awesome surfaces today.

    999, Blake Lively and Paddington Bear made me smile (and feel clever). Thanks Brockwell.

  33. ShopshireLass's avatar
    ShopshireLass

    Thanks to Brockwell for a very engaging puzzle themed around one of my favourite food group – 9across ‘Cake’ which was well hidden in the clue. Too many favourites to list.
    Thx also to manehi for his blog.

  34. Martin's avatar
    Martin

    Well played Beaulieu @25 for finishing off my curtailed train of thought about SCONE. That actually works very nicely. I am easily sidetracked by ice cream as well as cake!

  35. Jacob's avatar
    Jacob

    Even I got the theme today, although not until I had solved a couple of the clues referencing it, including COAT and BATTENBERG. I was dutifully mislead by the Hollywood misdirection, which I feel we have seen before?

    I was all set to quibble about 4A, which I failed to parse, until I gathered from the blog and comments that it is not merely YELL but YELL OW. Put that in the back pocket for future reference.

  36. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    [Roz @30: she did when the exorcism failed].

  37. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    PhilB @31

    How about one’s shoes being caked / coated with mud? I’ve seen that more than once and it does it for me.

  38. PostMark's avatar
    PostMark

    Eileen @37, you beat me to it. The first verbal synonym Chambers gives for CAKE is COAT.

  39. DuncT's avatar
    DuncT

    It took me a while to get the anagram at 8d, which was annoying as I attended many undergraduate lectures at the Appleton Tower in Edin…

  40. PeterC's avatar
    PeterC

    Who else had EDBERG for 26a? I still think that’s a better answer to the clue than the actual answer.

  41. Robi's avatar
    Robi

    There is, of course, COFFEE and (s)CREAM CAKE; enjoyable and sweet solve. I liked the drug supplier having COFFEE, the butcher who LOOKED IN, the barman’s national treasure eating BATTENBERG, and the whoopsie COWPATS.

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi.

  42. Layman's avatar
    Layman

    Thanks Brockwell and manehi! This was much easier to fill with answers than to parse; I got nowhere near parsing all, my GK sorely lacking. My favourite is EXONERATE. I had no idea that afternoon can be abbreviated as A (could someone please explain?) so COAT had to go in as a guess.

  43. Valentine's avatar
    Valentine

    Now I’m hungry! Have to find a cake of some sort for breakfast.

    I’d never heard of the APPLETON LAYER of the s99 cone, though when I looked it up it seemed familiar == maybe it was in an earlier puzzle. We have lots of ice cream over here but no so99 cones.

    A cowpat is a whoopsie?

    Did anybody else try to make DIES (day in Rome) into something in 19d?

    Thanks, Brockwell and manehi.

  44. gladys's avatar
    gladys

    Valentine@43: yes, I thought of DIES but it wouldn’t fit no matter what I did.

  45. Srivats's avatar
    Srivats

    A few difficult, but many were solvable. Missed the Hollywood reference even though I watched the whole British bake off series with Paul and Prue Leith!
    Thanks both

  46. Ianw's avatar
    Ianw

    Good crossword. Not difficult, but some tricky bits. Thanks.

  47. Lord Jim's avatar
    Lord Jim

    Very entertaining. And what a cast of characters, all cleverly used in different ways: Paul Hollywood, Peter Kay, Blake Lively, Rod Hull, Alban Berg, David Attenborough, Attila the Hun, Hugh Bonneville, Joe Swash. I did wonder if the last was a made-up name, but no, Brockwell is too good for that — JS is an actor, probably well-known to everyone except me. I was vaguely aware of Blake Lively, but I googled her anyway and I see that her breakthrough role was in The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants, which sounds a bit like a crossword clue in its own right.

    I failed to see the “yell ow” in SCREAM for which I’m kicking myself.

    A for afternoon is in Chambers, though I’m not sure what context it would be used in.

    Many thanks Brockwell and manehi.

  48. Digger's avatar
    Digger

    By a bizarre coincidence, the “Yell Ow” pun is also in the Church Times crossword today.

  49. aemmmnostt's avatar
    aemmmnostt

    Thanks Brockwell and Manehi. I’ll giggle all day over SCONE.

  50. Alphalpha's avatar
    Alphalpha

    Thanks both and great fun on a sunny afternoon – I rarely get to sit in the back garden with the crossword (by which I mean the Guardian one (of course)) and shift through the gears towards the inevitable full stop.

    COD was BATTENBERG because it resurrected memories of when my sister’s (then) boyfriend would visit to be greeted by my mother’s attempt at sophistication in the form of that cake. Now married for 60+ years he can still be risen by any complimentary reference to the marzipan-encrusted bichrome, which he hated. (But he ate it (the things we do for love)).

  51. Not That Paul's avatar
    Not That Paul

    Most of this was way beyond me and even reading the blog some of the definitions feel tenuous at best. (e.g. Edinburgh is a Scottish city. Never heard of a place called “Edin”)
    Is there any way that ‘Battenberg’ could be got without crossing letters?

  52. Grecian's avatar
    Grecian

    Many thanks to manehi for the great blog and to everyone else for the comments (especially the lovely ones 😉). I deliberately chose APPLETON LAYER to get two cakes in one solution and then discovered that a ton cake is a thing, so I’m claiming 3 there 😂. In my defence, Chambers has Edin. for Edinburgh, but I obviously won’t be using it again. Many thanks again. B

  53. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Paul@51 Berg is far from the most famous Austrian composer but he rules in crosswordland because of the friendly letters . The clue was ideal for me because I only have one national treasure and the setter agreed . 9=cake was already done so it was a cold-solve for me .

    [ AlanC@36 , you are too smart , I have fooled several boyfriends in the past with this . I hope you have noted that my crystal ball prediction for KPR is coming true . ]

  54. SimoninBxl's avatar
    SimoninBxl

    NTP@51. I agree that Looked In is a little unfair unless Briefly is doing double duty? As for Battenberg – definitely needed the last two crossers to get to Berg and then to the cake. As Roz@53 has pointed out, he is a useful crossword composer.

    Thanks for stopping by Brockwell/Grecian@52. It was a really good crossword which certainly kept me throughly entertained this morning.

  55. Alphalpha's avatar
    Alphalpha

    Not That Paul@51: While I sympathise Eoink@27 has (imho) justified ‘Edin’ with the (wonderfully wrought) ‘parenthetical postnominal’.

    On BATTENBERG it would be a struggle to get it without perhaps all the crossers but, as (I think) Balfour has pointed out in the past (with chilling realism), it is a crossword puzzle so winkling out crossers is a necessary part of the fun. That being said with CAKE as the theme and the ‘Austrian barman’ Berg a regular enough visitor to these shores BATTENBERG is arguably within reasonable reach. I know I gnashed my teeth when I eventually revealed it….

    [Grecian@52: You popped up in mid-composition and I was going to add to the above comment that ‘Edin’ is such a useful device that we might just have to get used to it so I am prepared (with the greatest possible respect (of course)) to gainsay your offering.]

  56. gladys's avatar
    gladys

    It’s called a cross-word for a reason. Any clue should be gettable without the aid of crossers, but there is no reason, apart from pure masochism, for the solver to oblige themselves to solve all of them that way.

  57. Not That Paul's avatar
    Not That Paul

    Thanks all for the replies – I’m a crossword newbie and am learning what is ‘fair’ and what isn’t. My sense of fairplay tells me that any clue should be solvable in isolation, but I get the ‘”cross-word” for a reason’ point.

    On the general knowledge side – no, never heard of Berg as a composer but I know I could Google Austrian composers if I’d figures out the ‘barman’ bit. Makes me wonder how people learnt to do crosswords pre-internet. A lot of the GK feels very exclusionary without modern means of searching. Was it ever thus?

  58. Andy in Durham's avatar
    Andy in Durham

    Edin. is listed in my copy of Chambers (1990 ed.) as an abbreviation for Edinburgh. It dates from the days when it was common practice to specify which university a degree had been awarded by – BA (Edin.) etc.

  59. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    Andy in Durham @58
    OK, but it refers to the Uni rather than the city, surely?

  60. Andy in Durham's avatar
    Andy in Durham

    Not that Paul@57: I learnt to do crosswords back in the 1970s, long before the invention even of the personal computer (computers back in those days were still machines the size of houses, operated by men in white coats. Most people had never seen one and certainly would never have known how to use it). One of the things I inherited from my mother (apart from her love of crosswords) was her collection of crossword dictionaries. For each category of knowledge (composers, etc) it provided an alphabetical list of possibilities, divided up by word length. Berg is listed in all of those books, although nowadays I normally resort to google, to provide a much more up to date list.

  61. Not That Paul's avatar
    Not That Paul

    AiD@60 – understood. Pre-university (=pre-internet), I grew up with reference books, but not crossword specific ones. Can I assume there were also books / guides that would somehow teach you to recognise that ‘barman’ = ‘composer’? Or was that just a case of seeing solutions published the next day and figuring it out?

  62. Andy in Durham's avatar
    Andy in Durham

    I think that was just a case of working it out from the published solutions.

  63. Not That Paul's avatar
    Not That Paul

    Youth of today, don’t know how lucky they are, etc. etc. 🙂

  64. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    Barman is (almost) always a composer in crosswords – one of those you put at the back of your mind.

  65. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    I have never used Google or any search , my computer use is limited to this site , Euclid and JWST , space telescope sites . As you say Paul I learnt by looking at the answers the next day and keeping a crossword diary . For reference I still use Chambers93 and a single volume encyclopedia . I used to use a Chambers thesaurus which also had some lists in the back , very useful when I was learning .
    Composer often clued as scorer .
    I think the youth of today are generally unlucky , very unhappy because of computers and especially mobile phones .

  66. Grecian's avatar
    Grecian

    Barman is a bit of a crossword chestnut Paul. If you see it, it almost certainly means a composer. A bit like Carmen is almost always AA or RAC.

  67. Not That Paul's avatar
    Not That Paul

    Thanks to the bloggers and commenters of this site – I’m sure over time I’ll start recognising more crosswordese and these (new to me) old chestnuts. Beyond today’s learnings, I’ve at least got ‘flowers’ i mind now.

    btw – glad I looked it up before screaming that a scone isn’t a cake! And best of luck to anyone trying to use scone as a homophone (or is that hommo-fonn?)!

  68. VinnyD's avatar
    VinnyD

    Tough on us foreigners (which is fair enough). I saw CAKE reversed in the clue but couldn’t see how it could be defined by “Hollywood production” and left it blank. Too many others to list.

  69. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    The pronunciation of SCONE is controversial. My family always said “sconn”, whereas “s cone” is also found. I’m not sure about the U/nonU connotations.

  70. Balfour's avatar
    Balfour

    Roz @65 To be particular, I think it is not mobile phones as such but smartphones that are blighting the lives of younger people. If mobiles were just devices for engaging in conversations there would not be the problem. Indeed, future generations will marvel that we ever had to make a call to a building where we hoped the recipient might be located rather than calling the person directly to whom we wished to speak. However, turning phones into small computers with full internet access has been a calamity which cannot easily or ever be mitigated.

  71. Dr. WhatsOn's avatar
    Dr. WhatsOn

    I’m not sure the logic equating tennis player to SEED is very strong. Firstly, many other sports use seeding too. Secondly, being a seed is not an intrinsic property of a tennis player – it is a role played for the duration of a tournament; tennis players are also from time to time pedestrians and diners – not what you’d want as a cryptic definition. Just sayin’!

  72. Not That Paul's avatar
    Not That Paul

    @muffiin – I’m also on the ‘sconn’ team. Which as I recall caused much hilarity at school reading Macbeth. Who outside Scotland knew a third pronunciation at age 14?

  73. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Balfour@70 people trying to contact me still have to phone a building and try to be put through to my office or the prep room where the lab techs are very good at screening for me , they know who I do not want to talk to . I agree that the modern phones must be far worse for young people but the old type and email are still a massive invasion of privacy .

  74. William F P's avatar
    William F P

    Brilliant fun

    Little time for 15², sadly. I think this week has been the best for puzzles in a while

    I simply had to pop in to proffer my appreciation – and thanks – to Brockwell

  75. Mig's avatar
    Mig

    On the road yesterday, so short of time to tackle this one. Finished today, with the help of research for the SW. Stuck on 8d APPLETON LAYER for a long time, until Mrs Mig correctly suggested the second word. Missed 15a BABA, guessing LAVA unparsed. I figured it was (N)AVAL cut and reversed somehow

    Very enjoyable puzzle, with consistently fine surfaces. Most of the clues were favourites, but especially 1a COFFEE (an honest definition — many are addicted), 12a LOOKED IN (rhyming slang I actually knew, having recently appeared in Agatha Christie’s Witness for the Prosecution), 21a SWEET PEA (misdirecting wordplay), 24a BATTENBERG (two fine cultural references), 25a OATH (Attila The Hun), 2d FAERY (“Imagined being…”), 18d REFUGEE (excellent surface)

    No cell phone for me either. I’m usually in one of two places, otherwise out of reach

    Thanks both, and to all for an interesting/enjoyable set of comments

  76. TomK's avatar
    TomK

    Loved the theme, which, as per usual, I only partially saw. Particularly liked the charming REFUGEE clue.
    As a genuine, born within the sound of Bow Bells etc, Cockney, I’m still slightly proud when I see rhyming slang that has become almost established as common usage, eg have a butcher’s, use your loaf (of bread = head). We won’t mention ‘Berk’…

  77. Cellomaniac's avatar
    Cellomaniac

    Apropos of nothing, Edin is a Swedish curler, perhaps the greatest of all time.

    For the Austrian barman at 24a I happily entered SCHOENBERG, and then tried unsuccessfully to backparse it.

    I never know how to pronounce SCONE, so I alternate between cone and con. It keeps everyone (or no one) happy.

  78. Mig's avatar
    Mig

    Cellomaniac@77 I also tried to justify SCHOENBERG! (The clue, that is, not his music…) 🙂

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