Guardian Cryptic 29,096 by Tramp

Tramp is the compiler of today's Guardian puzzle.

The first three across answers went in straight away, so I thought I was in for an easy ride at first, then I got no more of the across answers in my first pass. The top half went in fairly readily thereafter, but the south east corner remained defiantly blank for a while. Getting RANDY helped (if you know what I mean!), but I spent an inordinate amount of time trying to parse ATHLETE and a still struggling, so if any of you can enlighten me, please go ahead.

My favourites were the aforementioned RANDY along with CLEAVAGE, but there was a lot to like about the puzzle, even if the clue for RURAL is one I've seen before (it actually appears almost word for word in another puzzle elsewhere today).

Thanks Tramp

ACROSS
1 CHEATER
Person fiddling with cold radiator (7)

C (cold) + HEATER ("radiator")

5 GENETIC
Handed-down information with name recalled (7)

GEN ("information") with <=CITE ("name", recalled)

9 MAFIA
Criminals direct round over a Fed’s head (5)

<=AIM ("direct", round) over A + F(ed) ['s head]

10 REITERATE
Stress about computing electronic score (9)

RE ("about") + IT (information technology, so "computing") + E– (electronic, as in e-mail) + RATE ("score")

11 BUCKET LIST
Blue tick’s lost? Start to tweet series of unsatisfied experiences (6,4)

*(blue ticks) [anag:lost) + [start to] T(weet)

12 PERV
Queen after prince: very deviant (4)

ER (Elizabeth Regina, so "queen") after P (prince) + V (very)

14 ENDANGERING
Risking death by offending (11)

END ("death") by ANGERING ("offending")

18 GRAVITATION
Physical movement of body from Viagra? Not excited with it (11)

*(viagra not it) [anag:excited]

21 NOSH
Boy sent back hospital food (4)

<=SON ("boy", sent back) + H (hospital)

22 PILLOWCASE
It’s painful on tablet: patient that’s on bed (10)

OW ("it's painful") on PILL ("tablet") + CASE ("patient")

25 INSOMNIAC
One in on scam set free? He can’t get off (9)

I (one) + *(in on scam) [anag:set free]

26 RANDY
Even couple in orgy aroused … (5)

R AND Y are the even letters [even couple] of (o)R(g)Y

27 SENATES
… almost grasp buttocks, controlling bodies (7)

[almost] SE(e) ("grasp") + NATES ("buttocks")

28 ATHLETE
Jumper is one for man covering large belly in FaceTime (7)

AT ("for") + HE ("man") covering L (large) + [belly in (i.e. middle of)] (fac)ET(ime)

Not convinced by this parsing.

DOWN
1 COME BY
Get times to arrive first (4,2)

BY ("times") with COME ("to arrive") first

2 EFFACE
Swear allegiance at the front, church getting cross out (6)

EFF ("swear") + A(llegiance) [at the front] + CE ("Church" of England)

3 TRACEY EMIN
Artist from Royal Academy caught viewer in Tate Modern, initially with it (6,4)

RA (Royal Academy) + C (caught, in cricket) + EYE ("viewer") in T(ate) M(odern) [initially] + IN ("with it")

4 RURAL
Two rivers meet in country (5)

R (river) + (River) URAL

5 GLISSANDI
I sing with lads when playing what might be written in score (9)

*(I sing lads) [anag:when playing]

6 NEEP
Root for Scottish independence, essentially over European pressure (4)

<=(indep)EN(dence) [essentially, over] + E (European) + P (pressure)

"Neep" is the Scottish word for "turnip", so a "Scottish root (vegetable)"

7 TRADES IN
Deals with red stain after spillage (6,2)

*(red stain) [anag:after spillage]

8 CLEAVAGE
Clue vague, having lost us — answer written in which might be revealed in front (8)

A (answer) written in CL(u)E VAG(u)E [having lost Us]

13 PENNYWORTH
Set out to pry, when neighbour originally comes in for a bit (10)

*(to pry when) [anag:set out] with N(eighbour) [originally] coming in

15 DUALITIES
Dua Lipa, ignoring dad, secures conditions of being in two states (9)

DUA LI(pa) ignoring PA ("dad") + TIES ("secures")

16 AGENCIES
American spirits found in bottles around conservative offices (8)

A (American) + GENIES ("spirits found in bottles") around C (conservative)

17 PASSES ON
Out-of-date tin containing old leaves (6,2)

PASSÉ ("out of date") + Sn (chemical symbol for "tin") containing O (old)

19 SARNIE
New form for trainees missing item in the middle: it will need filling in (6)

*(raines) [anag:new form of] where RAINES is (t)RAIN(e)ES missing (i)TE(m) [in the middle]

For non-UK solvers, a sarnie is a sandwich, so it will "need filling in"

20 RETYPE
Jaguar after run to enter again (6)

E-TYPE ("Jaguar" car model) after R (run)

23 LYCRA
Gear for cycling leisurely on vacation; car moving around (5)

L(eisurel)Y [on vacation] + *(car) [anag:moving around]

24 SMUT
Bit of dirt, stomach’s upset (4)

<=TUM'S ("stomach's", upset)

87 comments on “Guardian Cryptic 29,096 by Tramp”

  1. drofle's avatar
    drofle

    No idea about the parsing of ATHLETE; I thought this was one of Tramp’s easier offerings. Like loonapick, I liked RANDY and CLEAVAGE in particular. Thanks to T & l.

  2. Tramp's avatar
    Tramp

    Thanks loonapick for the super blog.

    Your parsing for ATHLETE is correct. I use for = at in most puzzles: they sell for/at £1. I’ve never used the “belly” middle-section indicator before: perhaps I’ll put that back in the drawer.

    Neil

  3. Geoff Down Under's avatar
    Geoff Down Under

    I too am befuddled by ATHLETE. It took me a while to get RANDY 🙂 and I couldn’t parse EFFACE. I parsed TRACEY EMIN despite never having heard of her. So nates are buttocks? So much to learn, so little time …

    E-type Jaguar was a bit mean, I thought.

    Thanks Tramp & LoonPick.

  4. Loonapick's avatar
    Loonapick

    Thanks, Tramp@2 – good to know my ten minutes of head-scratching were not wasted!

  5. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    Thanks, Tramp and loonapick!
    Liked BUCKET LIST, PILLOWCASE, SENATES, CLEAVAGE and PASSES ON.

  6. Dave Ellison's avatar
    Dave Ellison

    I thought it was HE around L, but couldn’t see the rest.

    No sure about the definition for GRAVITATION, but no doubt it is in Chambers.

    I found this quite hard, but thanks to Tramp and loonapick

  7. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    Dave Ellison@6
    GRAVITATION
    Gravity/gravitation (force). The def seems fine.

  8. Widdersbel's avatar
    Widdersbel

    Always enjoy a Tramp puzzle. Loved the “root for Scottish” and “unsatisfied experiences” in particular.

    Belly seems a perfectly good middles indicator to me – in the sense of eg the belly of a ship.

    Thanks, Tramp and Loonapick.

  9. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    Tramp@2
    Thanks for dropping in. You’ve preempted a discussion on ‘for=at’ and ‘belly’. 🙂
    On ‘belly’, I have the same view as Widdersbel@8.

  10. Crispy's avatar
    Crispy

    Seems I had a similar experience to Loonapick with my solving.
    Out of interest, despite doing crosswords for years, I’m still bemused by the ellipses such as those in 26 and 27. Do they serve a purpose? Thanks in anticipation. Also, thanks to Tramp and Loonapick

  11. Andy Doyle's avatar
    Andy Doyle

    I made harder work of this than I needed to by taking three guesses and checks to get 21 across. Mash and Dish worked just as well in my mind.

  12. John M's avatar
    John M

    Yes, quite difficult, like you and others SE corner last to yield. . I like RETYPE the best. I thought CLEAVAGE, having lost us, was really clever, but very sneaky, only parsed after completing.

  13. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    Crispy@10
    Though today’s ellipses are not part of the wordplays or the definitions, I have seen ‘useful’ ellipses in some puzzles.
    There was one clue testing our knowledge of Morse code.

  14. copmus's avatar
    copmus

    As ATHLETE was the obvious fit for 28, I gathered by subtraction that AT=FOR-
    Not entirely convinced but it is Tramp so wont call for VAR
    Otherwise most enjoyable

  15. Shanne's avatar
    Shanne

    Crispy @10, there was a recent discussion about ellipses in the Guardian Crosssword Blog of 5th June which said sometimes they mean something, sometimes it just makes the clues read better.

    I came here to parse ATHLETE, otherwise I found this easier than I can find a Tramp crossword

    Thank you to Tramp and loonapick.

  16. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    Same experience with the SE corner, although no problem with parsing ATHLETE, as Tramp explained. Favourites were BUCKET LIST, CLEAVAGE RANDY, TRACEY EMIN, NEEP and SARNIE.

    Ta Tramp & loonapick.

  17. George Clements's avatar
    George Clements

    I liked this puzzle. Like others, I was bemused by ‘athlete’, so I’m grateful to Tramp@2 for explaining why he clues ‘at’ as ‘for’.

  18. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    There was definitely a risqué tinge to this with CHEATER, TRADE(S IN), COME BY, PERV, RANDY, CLEAVAGE, NOSH, SMUT, or maybe it’s just me!

  19. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    AlanC@18 – It’s not just you. NOSH got me thinking – again – of Giles Coren’s tirade against his subeditors:
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/jul/23/mediamonkey
    Now I see there’s a reply I hadn’t seen before:
    https://www.theguardian.com/media/2008/jul/29/sundaytimes.pressandpublishing
    On “belly”, I see Tramp@2 got in early, after two votes against. I liked it. Put me down as a “for”. Or is that an “at”?
    Thanks T&l

  20. Charles's avatar
    Charles

    I got stuck because I had DISH instead of NOSH very early on, DIS being Sid (a boy) backwards. Eventually it became clear that my crossers for 16d couldn’t possibly work.
    Like many I struggled with ATHLETE but I can’t see much wrong with “belly” as an indicator.
    Lots to like here, thanks to Tramp and loonapick.

  21. Russtoo's avatar
    Russtoo

    AlanC@18 I think maybe you’ve acquired a squint from looking too hard, although I accept 4, 5, 6, and 8 on your list.

  22. AlanC's avatar
    AlanC

    FrankieG @19: excellent. Russtoo @21: and there was me thinking it was the sun 🙂

  23. Ronald's avatar
    Ronald

    I too thought mistakenly that I might be in for an easy ride this morning, but then ground to a halt and had to fight my way through a series of wonderful misdirections – PENNYWORTH, PASSES ON, LYCRA and loi SARNIE to name but a few. Struggled to parse ATHLETE. In retrospect this was an excellent challenge…

  24. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    Russtoo@21 – you’ve missed out 7! 🙂

  25. ZenoofWatford's avatar
    ZenoofWatford

    Thanks, Tramp and loonapick – puzzle and parsing both great fun today. Thanks, too, Tramp, for commenting above, which led to my visiting the Guardian ‘Meet the Setter’ pages, and thence to your first themed offering. I hadn’t seen it before, and it has provided some added amusement.

  26. michelle's avatar
    michelle

    I could not parse 28ac apart from L in HE, and 8d.

    Favourites: ENDANGERING, SARNIE.

    Thanks, both.

  27. wot larx's avatar
    wot larx

    I really enjoyed the neatness of REITERATE, it was a balm for the mind to solve. I also am pro-belly, if we’re counting.

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick!

  28. Jack Of Few Trades's avatar
    Jack Of Few Trades

    All good fun but I thought neeps were what we in England call swedes and Americans call rutabaga – a yellow, sweet root vegetable. The Scots call those turnips as I understand it but for us a turnip is the white version (sometimes called white turnips up north). It’s one of those things where the words used overlap (or even get reversed) in such a way as to pretty much guarantee errors or ambiguity.

    Anyway, a really fun challenge with some knotty parsings and good surfaces. For the record, I was OK with “belly” (as in the “belly of the beast”) but less happy with the food as I had “mash” and then “dish” before “nosh”. But I guess “nosh” fits better with the informal “sarnie”.

  29. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    ZenoofWatford @25 – thank you for prompting me, too, to revisit ‘Meet the setter, Tramp’, which I really enjoyed reading again with its remembrance of the still-missed Taupi and the lovely story of Tramp and his dad and thence Sandy Balfour’s X-Philes, which I remember with great fondness. I was lucky enough to blog Tramp’s first (‘Fawlty Towers’) puzzle, which I thought was brilliant.

    Another super puzzle today – from a long list of ticks, I’ll just pick out NEEP, for its great surface, which my Scottish husband would have loved. 😉 Many thanks, both.

  30. Nick's avatar
    Nick

    Like at least some others I found the SE corner rather chewy. Tx to loonapick for the parsing of RANDY and PASSES ON. I thought this was a fine puzzle though am I right in saying there was no lurker?

    Favs SARNIE CLEAVAGE PILLOWCASE.

  31. Eileen's avatar
    Eileen

    Jack of Few Trades – your comment appeared while I was typing mine. You’re quite right, of course – we used to argue about it!

  32. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    Crispy@10
    Found some clues with ‘useful’ ellipses (from the archives):

    Is sleuth returning to open certain letters? … (8)
    ELLIPSIS

    … maybe a second set of lines found after second reading? (5,4)
    MORSE CODE

    Sure, there are many more.

  33. Bonnie's avatar
    Bonnie

    First pass yielded only SMUT – no pun intended pace Alan C @18 – but then it all fell into place until, like others, the SE corner. Then I got RANDY (oh dear) and all was clear. No problems parsing ATHLETE; I thought “belly in FaceTime” was by no means the most obscure clue I’ve encountered in the Guardian. loi was sarnie. Some very clever clueing; liked 5,8, 25 and 20 in particular.
    Thanks Tramp and Loonapick – although for once I didn’t actually need you!

  34. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Thanks for the blog, clever set of clues , I liked CLEAVAGE for the us= u u , AGENCIES has a neat use of genies , RANDY I always like these x and y ideas, ATHLETE is clever wordplay and I see no problem with the use of belly.
    GRAVITATION can be the act of gravitating which is moving towards due to the curvature of the Ricci tensor, so the definition is fine.
    KVa @32 , nice example, the best use of these has the first answer used in the word play of the second clue.
    AlanC @18 , you missed out DUALITIES .

  35. SinCam's avatar
    SinCam

    I could not parse a lot of these, which I got through the crossers and the ultimate definition. So thank you everyone.
    (I am pro belly and at/for)
    Thanks T and l

  36. poc's avatar
    poc

    I too wondered about GRAVITATION, but Chamber’s has “the act of gravitating” so I suppose it’s OK.

    I found this mostly quite accesible, but got stuck on the SE corner, though RANDY was good once I spotted it.

  37. KVa's avatar
    KVa

    Roz@34
    PIMPLY and SPOTTY: I remember that pair. Lovely.

  38. Loonapick's avatar
    Loonapick

    Jack of All Trades@28 – you are right of course, and as a Scot I should know that, except that I can’t stand either suedes or turnips, except in soup, so often mix the two up.

  39. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    KVa@32 – those are very nice clues. I’d have liked to solve that puzzle. Shame it’s an Indy, and not available online.
    And obviously the “sleuth” is Endeavour.

  40. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Loonapick@38 your blog is fine , Chambers gives NEEP as a Scottish word for turnip ( which may be a swede) but is certainly a root vegetable. Jack@28 is right about overlap and even reversal , last time this cropped up I looked through my gardening books. Turnip is the smaller, rounder one with white flesh, swede is the other. My mother called them completely the opposite and the market she used agreed. I have lived in several places and the usage seems to vary a lot.

  41. gladys's avatar
    gladys

    There is no right answer to the turnips/swedes etc. argument: it just depends which part of the world you come from. Anyway, it isn’t relevant here what NEEPS look like – they are undoubtedly a Scottish root vegetable.

    I liked the tricks in the RANDY/SARNIE pair even though they had me baffled: also gave up on parsing ATHLETE but have no quarrel with it. Liked BUCKET LIST, PILLOWCASE and INSOMNIAC and the missing Us in CLEAVAGE. I learned NATES from previous crosswords: it was identifying what had been truncated to make SE that was the problem!

    TRACEY EMIN is a lot of fiddly parsing for somebody who won’t be known to all solvers (even if she should be).

  42. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    Crispy@10
    Here the ellipses in 26…27 just indicate that you could string the clues together to get even more PERVy RANDY SMUT for AlanC@18.

  43. Amoeba's avatar
    Amoeba

    Quite gentle for a Tramp I thought! I remembered his fondness for for/at from previous puzzles, which helped with ATHLETE. No problem with ‘belly’ here. REITERATE my pick of the bunch.

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick.

  44. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    But what is Bruce Wayne’s butler doing at 13d, and why was he in the last few episodes of Endeavour?

  45. Robi's avatar
    Robi

    Another good one from Tramp.

    I didn’t have any problem with NOSH. I liked RANDY for the obvious, TRACEY EMIN, TRADES IN and PENNYWORTH for the surfaces, CLEAVAGE for the missing Us and the definition, and AGENCIES for the spirits in bottles.

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick.

  46. Crispy's avatar
    Crispy

    Thanks to KVa, Shanne and FrankieG for your help on ellipses. I’ll look at that blog later today.

  47. Gervase's avatar
    Gervase

    Not one of Tramp’s knottier offerings but no less enjoyable for that. My favourites have already been called out many times. The ‘us’ device was beautiful and I always enjoy ‘x AND y’ clues. ‘Belly’ works fine for me as an indicator of the centre of a word, and ‘for’ = AT is perfectly OK even though the synonymy only exists in very restricted circumstances.

    NEEPs are certainly the large yellow fleshed variety – ‘bashit neeps and champit tatties’ being the traditional accompaniment to haggis – but swede(rutabaga) and turnip are both varieties of Brassica napus: the Latin ‘napus’ is the source of both NEEP -and the second syllable of ‘turnip’.

    Thanks to Neil and loonapick

  48. Dr. WhatsOn's avatar
    Dr. WhatsOn

    Nicely SMUTty, a lot of fun.

    There’s maybe a bit of a philosophical issue with SARNIE. If it hasn’t been filled, then it isn’t a sandwich yet. But it is an intended sandwich, which is good enough for a crossword, if not lunch, imo.

  49. Roz's avatar
    Roz

    Dr.W @48 for SARNIE I took it that – it will need (a) filling in – to be the answer.

  50. ozof's avatar
    ozof

    Gervase @47

    I’m not quite convinced that “at” and “for” are synonymous in the context Tramp suggests in @2

    To my mind in the given context, “for” is used to indicate exchange. i.e. one thing for another: “a tomato for $1, the agreed price”
    Meanwhile “at” is used to indicate relative value. i.e. a thing at a position along a scale: “a tomato at $1: 10c more than yesterday”

    I guess it’s a close thing, but it just feels off to me.
    Very nice puzzle otherwise, Tramp, (even if your clues ramble a bit. 🙂 )
    Thanks

  51. Loonapick's avatar
    Loonapick

    Ozof@50

    Aim for = aim at?

  52. Alastair's avatar
    Alastair

    Didn’t finish this one. Never heard of nates and dislike regional slang like sairnie. Otherwise enjoyable.

  53. Tramp's avatar
    Tramp

    ozof: I lifted the at/for straight from Collins. They say it can mean: “for: in exchange for”.

    I’ve used this umpteen times. Every time I have to explain it. Maybe that’s a sign, but, I like it.

    Thanks for the comments on the Fawlty Towers puzzle. When I look back at those earlier puzzles, I cringe. I think a lot of the clues are too bitty.

    Neil

  54. Gervase's avatar
    Gervase

    Alastair @52: SARNIE is certainly informal, but it is it regional? I think it’s uttered in many parts of Britain and is less restricted in its usage than ‘butty’. Incidentally, one of the companies that operate service areas along Italian autostrade is called Sarni, which never fails to amuse.

  55. Gervase's avatar
    Gervase

    Tramp @53: Your early puzzles (such as Fawlty Towers) were often hyperthematic, which meant that some convoluted clues were unavoidable. But you’ve honed your skills since then 🙂

  56. ozof's avatar
    ozof

    Loonapick @51

    Yes, fair example, even if they still connote slightly different meanings to me
    Here, I feel that “at” is directional, while “for” is intentional. In the end though, whether you say “Aim at the target” or “Aim for the target” the essential meaning is the same, so I have to let it go.
    Perhaps it’s just that I feel that using any preposition as an indicator for another preposition is problematic.
    It niggles is all, but what you gonna do!? 🙂

  57. MartinD's avatar
    MartinD

    Jaguar great. Athlete not.

  58. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick
    “the country” would have read better in 4d, and I don’t see any reason not to use it.
    I liked RETYPE.

  59. Gervase's avatar
    Gervase

    muffin @59: ‘in the country’ would have flagged up the solution more obviously. As it was, I spent quite a while interpreting ‘country’ as ‘a member of the UN in its own right’, so there was an element of deception that certainly worked against me.

  60. Katherine's avatar
    Katherine

    muffin @59 the setter of today’s puzzle in The Times clearly agrees with you!
    Quite a coincidence to have virtually identical clues in two cryptics on the same day. (Or perhaps it’s not rare – I don’t usually do the Times puzzles but I’m taking dvantage of a free trial.)

  61. Tony Santucci's avatar
    Tony Santucci

    Thanks Tramp for a worthwhile crossword with NEEP, MAFIA, and CLEAVAGE being among my favourites. I’ll try to remember SARNIE; on some U.S. menus you’ll find “sammie” meaning the same thing. And now that I’ll learned what “belly” in a clue can mean I’d hate to see that use disappear. Thanks loonapick for the blog.

  62. bodycheetah's avatar
    bodycheetah

    ozof et al – as Sean Connery’s agent once said: “Can you be there (for/at) tennish?” to which Sean replied: “Tennish? I don’t even have a racquet” 🙂

    Really enjoyed this – some of the subtractions were sublime – and Tramp remains firmly in my number one setter slot

    Cheers L&T

  63. William F P's avatar
    William F P

    I fully echo first paragraph of Gervase@47
    Enjoyed RANDY and CLEAVAGE
    Many thanks both and all

  64. Valentine's avatar
    Valentine

    Non-US readers may not know that a blue tick hound is an American breed of coon hound. Raccoons being a North American animal, it would have to be, wouldn’t it? (I didn’t know “coon hound” was an official type of dog till today.) By Google, they make good hunters and also good pets. They sound like nice dogs.

    EFFACE doesn’t mean “cross out,” it means “erase.” if you cross something out, it’s still there; if you erase it, it isn’t.

    Thanks to Tramp and loonapick for an enjoyable morning.

  65. Loonapick's avatar
    Loonapick

    Chambers Thesaurus has “cross out” as a synonym for “efface”.

  66. matt w's avatar
    matt w

    Thanks Tramp and loonapick! Very enjoyable puzzle, I particularly like CLEAVAGE. As a Yank I had to reveal SARNIE (which I’d heard of but doesn’t spring to mind) but for once NEEP wasn’t an issue as I once had a tower of Neeps, Tatties, and Haggis while at an academic conference in Stirling. (The restaurant may have been in Bridge of Allan.) I had figured neeps was “turnips” but I would probably not know the difference between a parsnip/rutabaga/turnip/swede/etc. if I were repeatedly struck about the head with one, which I would request you not do.

  67. matt w's avatar
    matt w

    Oh and adding my voice to the chorus of those who like “belly” for middle! I also appreciate “son” for boy in NOSH, using proper names for boy/girl always bothers me a bit because kids can be named anything, really.

  68. grantinfreo's avatar
    grantinfreo

    Mmm, tatties and neeps with lots of butter, I could just do with some now. Great puzzle, ta both.

  69. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    [On the root vegetable topic, I’m reliably informed that the French – judges of gastronomic quality – don’t have a word for parsnips. They call them “field vegetables” and feed them to cattle (like mangel-wurzels).
    Swedes are serviceable vegetables, but a finely cooked turnip is far superior, in my opinion!]

  70. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    [me @70
    Google translate disagrees though, and gives “panais”]

  71. MarkN's avatar
    MarkN

    Really enjoyed this. Love a Tramp. No quibbles here. Favourite might be Bucket List for the definition.

    Ta all.

  72. sheffield hatter's avatar
    sheffield hatter

    A most enjoyable puzzle from Tramp, to whom thanks for dropping by. Or should that be “in”, or possibly “at”. Fortunately I remembered ‘for’=AT, so please keep on using it. And I am firmly in the camp that approves of ‘belly’ to indicate the central letters of a string, so I hope this will not turn out to be its only appearance.

    And thanks to loonapick for the absolutely spot on blog, and for dropping by (or in) to correct those who feel the need to say “X doesn’t equal Y” without first checking a dictionary or thesaurus. 🙂

  73. Nicola's avatar
    Nicola

    Orgasmic

  74. CliveinFrance's avatar
    CliveinFrance

    Muffin
    (up to about 5 years ago it was very difficult to find panais here in France, but they are now common in markets and supermarkets. We also get Brussel Sprouts at Christmas)

  75. muffin's avatar
    muffin

    [CliveinFrance
    I sympathise about the Brussels sprouts. Some people can’t taste their bitterness, but I (and my daughter, though not my wife) can!
    I had better say that my informant on French not having word for parsnips was Breton, not French.]

  76. Jay's avatar
    Jay

    Loved the puzzle—thanks Tramp! I had no issue with belly; in fact, I rather liked it. Not much of a fan of the YBAs and after googling Ms Emin it will probably stay that way. My favorite entry was CLEAVAGE, but hey, how can you not like it?

  77. Rob T's avatar
    Rob T

    [muffin @70/71 – I’m afraid you weren’t quite so reliably informed, parsnips are indeed “panais” here in France, I buy them at the local market quite often. And according to Wiktionary France, the word has been in use since the 16th century!]

  78. yehudi's avatar
    yehudi

    FrankieG @58 — Thank you!

  79. yehudi's avatar
    yehudi

    And Tramp, of course – brilliant!

  80. essexboy's avatar
    essexboy

    The more I think about it, the more I agree with ozof @56 that there’s a problem with using one preposition as an indicator for another. They’re such flexible little words that keeping track of all the possible equivalences between them in all possible contexts is nigh-on impossible.

    I’ve put together a (not so) little list:
    1) Speak/talk/chat to = speak/talk/chat with
    Therefore to = with?
    2) Do we have an effective remedy for malaria? = Do we have an effective remedy against malaria?
    Therefore for = against?
    3) Different from = different to = different than (the last especially common in the US, I gather)
    Therefore from = to = than?
    4) These are the proposals for consideration = these are the proposals under consideration
    Therefore for = under?

    And if we include adverbial/adjectival uses:
    5) It’s down to you = it’s up to you
    Therefore down = up?
    6) Get on with someone = get along with someone
    Therefore on = along?
    7) Log in = log on
    Therefore in = on?
    8) Stand down = stand aside
    Therefore down = aside?
    9) Give in = give up
    Therefore in = up?
    10) Speak out = speak up (eg in someone’s defence)
    Therefore out = up?
    11) Fill in = fill out (eg a form)
    Therefore in = out?

    Of course, each of these equivalences only works in a very restricted context – but that’s also the case with for = at.

    I take Tramp’s point @53 that he has dictionary backing – maybe my beef is with Collins 😉

  81. ozof's avatar
    ozof

    essexboy @81
    ! 😀

  82. tim the toffee's avatar
    tim the toffee

    It’s a bit late now but I agree with Essexboy @81.
    Also the use of “essentially” to get EN from independence irks. I didn’t parse ATHLETE.
    Nevertheless I did enjoy most of this one and that’s to Tramp and loonapick

  83. Pops's avatar
    Pops

    Essexboy @81 I love that! Isn’t it funny how words carry such different meanings in different contexts? Having said that, I don’t have a problem with Tramp’s usage of for/at in this case (although it confused me) and I hope “belly” doesn’t get retired either. This was a fun crossword.

  84. Alphalpha's avatar
    Alphalpha

    eb@81: Haha. I’d say any setters looking in will be rubbing their hands in(/on(/along)/up(/down)/out(/up again)) glee….

  85. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    essexboy @81 🙂

  86. FrankieG's avatar
    FrankieG

    yehudi@79 – You’re welcome.

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