Comments on: Azed 1,888 – Printer’s Devilry

By: Richard Palmer

Richard Palmer — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 13:01:01 +0000

I thought this was a superb puzzle. It’s incredibly hard to compose an entire grid of PD clues, particularly the long words. I would guess only about 1 in 10 of eight-letter words can be split in a sensible way for a PD clue, and an even smaller proportion of 9-, 10- letters or more. As a result, most PD puzzles have a few clues that read very awkwardly, but here all Azed’s clues were good with a high proportion of brilliant ones.

By: Colin Blackburn

Colin Blackburn — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 11:03:56 +0000

For those new to PD clues Scrabble tiles can help in playing about with word breaks and spacing.

By: mhl

mhl — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 09:22:36 +0000

This was the first Printer’s Devilry crossword that I’ve tried to do, and although it took me ages to get started at all there were lots of wonderful “a-ha!” moments once I got the hang of it. For some reason the last answer I got (after quite a while) was RUME, even with all the checking letters…

Trying to write any clue worth submitting was a nightmare, though – I had a couple that I thought were OK before I noticed the note about preference being given to those with the more difficult word break positions around the inserted word. Then my attempts to fix them got out of control very fast.

By: DFM

DFM — Mon, 11 Aug 2008 05:18:18 +0000

Richard Heald, our new joint champion, is spot on. PDs aren’t about definitions — they are about something quite different and at their best are extremely pleasing. Anyone who finds the lack of a definition unsatisfactory is completely missing the point. My first Ximenes PD took me six hours to unravel and I made a mistake. This latest Azed puzzle was quite tricky in parts, and began to remind me of that experience nearly 40 years ago!

By: Mick h

Mick h — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 14:52:18 +0000

Of course the clues give hints as to what’s missing, but only by suggesting the new words to be created – none of the clues bears any relation to the meaning of the word to be entered in the grid. That’s why I say it is in the end just a string of letters – albeit one that has to exist in Chambers.

By: Richard Heald

Richard Heald — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 13:21:54 +0000

Many people seem to find PD without definition unsatisfactory, but I think the aesthetic beauty (and perhaps even the solvability) of a PD clue would be fatally compromised by the need to incorporate a (frequently unwieldy) definition. As Nmsindy says, an well-written PD clue should provide enough hints to allow the solver to figure out what might be missing – but then, not every setter writes PD clues as well as Azed.

By: nmsindy

nmsindy — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 11:57:57 +0000

Yes, I’m also lost in admiration for the setter – an incredible feat to fill a grid with these. I think the format is well-established now and it’s a different type of puzzle worth its place. There’s no definition but the context of the clue gives hints most of the time.

By: Mick h

Mick h — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 10:51:31 +0000

The lack of definition always leaves me a little dissatisfied by a PD puzzle, despite my great admiration for Azed’s ability to fill a puzzle with them. I just don’t like completing a crossword with strings of letters whose meaning is irrelevant.
Apart from the added challenge to the compiler, the other objection that has been raised is that definitions can make a PD puzzle too easy. One way round this might be to put definitions in the wrong clues, but I suspect most solvers wouldn’t actually bother to match them all up. Tricky one.

By: Colin Blackburn

Colin Blackburn — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 09:37:22 +0000

Re the extra N. It is worth checking the Crossword Centre’s message board for alerts to mistakes in Azed puzzles. Bear in mind though that the puzzles are never discussed before the solution is published. See link.

By: Duggie

Duggie — Sun, 10 Aug 2008 08:45:18 +0000

Thanks Andrew, for all the hard work. This is an excellent dissection of a puzzle which leaves me lost in admiration for the setter. It may need a long time to solve, but think of the time the setter must take. Just composing a decent tie-breaker entry took me ages. And think how much longer it would take if there had to be a definition in each clue! I agree it would be nice, but it’s almost asking the impossible. Well spotted the extra N in the CYAN clue! I hadn’t noticed it.